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Hungarian - January challenge thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes  Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 585 of 1549 14 May 2011 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
OK. This is a problem for people learning Hungarian. In present tense, indicative mood, the ending: - for 2nd person, singular, indefinite conjugation can be -sz or -asz for back (low) vowel harmony and -sz or -esz for front (high) vowel harmony, - for 3rd person, plural, indefinite conjugation can be -nak or -anak for back (low) vowel harmony and -nek or -enek for front (high) vowel harmony, - for 1st person showing into 2nd person, singular, definite conjugation can be -lak or -alak for back (low) vowel harmony and -lek or -elek for front (high) vowel harmony, - for 2rd person, plural, indefinite conjugation can be -tok or -otok for back (low) vowel harmony and -tek or -etek for front (high) unrounded vowel harmony and -tök or -ötök for front (high) rounded vowel harmony. When is there the 2nd form with the added vowel (it is called "linking vowel" by older linguistics books and "predecessor vowel" by newer books). There is no general rule, BUT there is a rule that works in 99 % of the cases. This is much easier than in the case of nouns, when there is only a 75-80 % of probability when is there a predecessor vowel. So see these rules: there is a predecessor vowel almost always, when: - the stem ends in two DIFFERENT consonants, - the stem ends in a long vowel and a "t". There are cases when both versions are possible, with and without the predecessor vowel, however in these cases using a predecessor vowel will not be an error. Note that this is valid only for 99 % of the cases, not for 100 %. For example the verb LÁT doesnt have a predecessor vowel, it is LÁTSZ, LÁTNAK, LÁTLAK, LÁTTOK, and not *látasz*, *látanak*, *látalak*, *látotok*, as would be expected. Edited by maxval on 14 May 2011 at 7:47pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 586 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 9:59am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Thanks, I knew something about this rule, but, as you can see, I thought it was whenever there were 2 consonants together, I didn't know they have to be different. My only knowledge of this before was based on observing your corrections of my stories. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 587 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 10:08am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 588 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 10:14am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 589 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
It is good to remember these rules! In reality Hungarian has only 3 (three) irregular verbs: jön, megy, van. ALL OTHER verbs are regular. Most of them have perfectly predictable behaviour in all conjugations. There are 10-15 % of the verbs that have more than one stem. But these verbs are still regular. The only problem is to learn that they have more than one stem, and need to learn when these stems are used. But even these stems are perfectly predictable, with no or almost no exceptions. It may sound strange, but the fact is that English verbs have easier conjugation forms, but at the same time in English there are hundreds of irregular verbs, where there is absolutely no rule, you have to learn the irregular forms. There is no way to predict why there is go-went-gone and why throw-threw-thrown and why begin-began-begun or why feel-felt-felt - there is absolutely no logic and no rule... So, in case of Hungarian you need to learn only the pattern of the endings in different conjugations and the pattern of the stem changes in case of multiple stem verbs. But no need to memorize irregular forms (with the exception of megy, jön, van). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 590 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
In case of nouns, the predecessor vowel is mostly "o", and in 15-20 % of the cases is "a". While in case of adjectives, its the opposite, the predecessor vowel is mostly "a", and in 15-20 % of the cases is "o". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 591 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes, but saying two time the subject in a short sentence is not good. If you want to avoid any ambiguity, then say "A földön a férfi erősen vérzett, mellette sok vér volt." 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 592 of 1549 15 May 2011 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
The problem is that "össze" is mainly a verbal prefix, and it seems here that you want to use two verbal prefixes with one verb. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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