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Hungarian - January challenge thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes  Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 377 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
I have to explain about foreign loan words in Hungarian. In general, Hungarian avoids foreign loan words. In Hungarian there are less loan words (I mean: MODERN loan words) than in most other European languages. I think only Finnish and Croatian is more "xenophopic" in this sense. So the fate of foreign loan words in Hungarian is one of the following categories: 1. The foreign loan words gets introduced to Hungarian, but later a Hungarian equivalent is invented, and the foreign word disappears or almost disappears. For example, the football words are good examples for this. Football was invented in England, and for this reason the specific football words were originally English words in a Hungarian style, for example 100 years ago "corner" was "korner" in Hungarian, "offside" was "ofszájd", "fault" was "falt". But very soon Hungarian football enthusiasts invented Hungarian words for almost every football word, so now in 99 % of the cases "corner" is "szöglet", "offside" is "les", and "fault" is "szabálytalanság". 2. Parallel use of the foreign loan word and its Hungarian equivalent. Sometimes with a little bit different meaning, or as two synonyms with different style. For example "futball" and "labdarúgás" and even "foci" (shortened for futball). As a verb "futballozik" or "focizik" is used, but as a "player of football", both "labdarúgó" and "focista" can be used, however "labdarúgó" has a more "official" sense. Other example is "számítógép" and "kompjúter". 3. Parallel use of the foreign loan word and its Hungarian equivalent, but in normal everydays situations only the foreign version is used. The Hungarian version is considered a little bit funny. For example there is "telefon" and "távbeszélő", but in normal life you will never hear "távbeszélő". 4. When a Hungarian equivalent was never invented (or it was invented, but never has gained popularity), and only the original foreign loan word is used. Usually, when this happens, the foreign word changes its ortography. For example "camping" was written 30 years ago mostly as "camping", but now it is normally written as "kemping". So "doktor" and "orvos" are similar. As a profession, only "orvos" is used. But as an address to someone it is "doktor". "Doktor" is also used as honorific title for persons having universitary PhD title. Edited by maxval on 03 April 2011 at 3:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5138 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 378 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think I made this same mistake one time before, I feel a bit of deja vu! I should have known it too because I remember it from Budapest. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 379 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Something interesting.
You wont believe this, but Microsoft has done a great service for the development of the Hungarian language. They at Microsoft know that Hungarian likes to create new words for almost every foreign word, so their Language Department has always tried to introduce new Hungarian words for computer related new words. Some of these new words became popular and now are used by almost everyone. For example "meghajtó" was invented for "drájv" (English: drive), "mappa" was invented for "direktori" (English: directory), "merevlemez" for "harddiszk" (English: hard disk), and so on. My favorite new Hungarian word from Microsoft is "töredezettségmentesítés" (try to pronounce it!) it is for the English word "defragmentation". Even "állomány" was invented for "fájl" (English: file), but it is not so popular, most people continue using "fájl". This process is similar to the process of invention of new Hungarian words at the middle of the 19th century for juridical and political use. Almost all Latin and German words in politic and law matters were replaced by Hungarian words in that period. Most of them are simple mirror translations from the original, example "republika" became "köztársaság", this is the original sense of the Latin "res publica". Try to read Hungarian political newspapers from the first half of the 19th century. An average Hungarian wont understand it! Need to have good high education or to know Latin in order to be able to understand a political article from that period. Edited by maxval on 03 April 2011 at 4:09pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 380 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
I forgot to mention that "goal" remained "gól"... no succesful attempt for inventing a Hungarian word... :-))) Edited by maxval on 03 April 2011 at 4:12pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5138 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 381 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is a big problem in Czech, there are so many new foreign words and the quantity is increasing very quickly and replacing the Czech versions in a lot of cases. It's now common to hear phrases like 'take it easy', 'standing ovation' and 'coming out (admitting your gay)' and it's now quite rare that I can read more than a sentence or two without seeing a word of English or foreign origin. I really have a bit of a phobia of it and quite often I use the Czech word while Czechs around me are using the English word. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 382 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
In Bulgarian it is the same, but I think this is not real problem. If the community feels the necessity to use new words, it will do it anyway. But if it is only a new mode of snobbery, then the new words will die out. Edited by maxval on 03 April 2011 at 4:26pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kisfroccs Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 5198 days ago 388 posts - 549 votes Speaks: French*, German*, EnglishC1, Swiss-German, Hungarian Studies: Italian, Serbo-Croatian | Message 383 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hey,
That's truly interesting ! I knew that, because once I used the word labdarúgózik instead of focizik and my partner found it very amusing. In French too, they are fighting the "anglicisme", e.g. we have ordinateur instead of computer. But it's not so extrem like in Hungary. That reminds me : I grew up in a western country and we all learned in school that the vocabulary during the communism era was as well affected. Last year my boyfriend, who worked in newspaper, retrieved newspaper dating from 1953-1956 which were about to land in the bin. He showed them to me, and translated them for me as I couldn't really understand what the text was saying. To say that I was shocked is a mild word :) Okay, I knew this, but this was really new for me that it had such an impact on the way they wrote. (surely the words too, but this I couldn't understand, as I knew not a lot of Hungarian) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 384 of 1549 03 April 2011 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
It is interesting that many Western people think there was a huge Russian influence on Eastern Europe during communism. In reality there was very little Russian influence. There was communist influence, yes, but not Russian! Why? Because there were almost no contacts between Russians in Hungarians. Russians couldnt travel freely to anywhere, including to communist countries! For an ordinary Russian traveling to Hungary was ALMOST as difficult as traveling to the West. Hungarians (and other Eastern Europeans) could travel more freely, but travel to the Soviet Union was difficult, there was not possible to travel there simply as a "tourist", you needed an invitation from a Soviet citizen stamped with many stamps by different kinds of Soviet authorities. Let me tell a real case. I had a Bulgarian friend (a girl) who had an Ukrainian boyfriend. The Ukrainian boy wanted to send an invitation for the girl. He went to the police station. The policeman asked him "are you planning to marry her?", the boy replied "no, now we are only friends". The policeman said "I see, you have an indecent, bourgeois relationship with her! this is definitely not allowed for a Soviet citizen! your request is denied". In the Soviet Union traveling abroad was almost impossible until the end of the communist regime, while in Hungary it was not so. There was until 1961 an almost total ban on travels from Hungary, but later this was step by step liberalized. The year 1961 is not a coincidence - this is the year when the Berlin Wall was built. So you can understand the reason: traveling to East Germany meant de facto traveling to the West, as in Berlin there was no border control between the Soviet and the Western occupation zones, so any Hungarian tourist in East Germany could go West Berlin without any problem, and from West Berlin to any place in the world. This is why travel was not allowed at all. Later from 1972 there was a possibility to travel up to 5 times to any other communist country (East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, but NOT the Soviet Union!) without prior travel permit, and there was a possibility to travel to the West one time every 3 years with a special "exit visa" valid for 30 days. Later, from 1984 travel to East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria became unlimited, and to the West 1 time every year. This was until 1988, when all exit visas were abolished. But in the Soviet Union restrictions were in force until 1991! So, an ordinary Hungarian has never had a chance to see a Russian!!! There was in Hungary between 1944-1991 150-200 thousands Soviet troops, but in reality they were "invisible". Soviets of soldiers ranks were de facto closed to their military camps all the time, they had no right to leave the military camps. Junior officers had their flats outside the military camps, but in closed units. Only senior and high officers had "normal" flats in the cities and only they were allowed to live outside of their military camps and to spend their free time in the real Hungarian life. As a boy, I remember, that I was able to see 2 or 3 Soviet officers every week when traveling in the Budapest public transport. No more! Edited by maxval on 03 April 2011 at 5:33pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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