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Hungarian - January challenge thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5138 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes  Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 273 of 1549 15 March 2011 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The exact translation of what I wanted to say would be - After that we were afraid for a long time, but it's not a problem anymore/but we're not afraid anymore. Obviously I tried not to translate from English and tried to think in bad Hungarian because that's a better way in the long run. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6945 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 274 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 4:28am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thank you. I hope that it answers some of your questions about Finno-Ugric languages. It was a pain but ultimately rewarding for me to dig out that comparative material since those languages are not well-served by literature in English. I would like to add a few bits to Maxval's comments about Bulgarian and Macedonian. Indeed the question about what distinguishes a language from a dialect is highly charged in the Balkans. A comparable parallel between Bulgarian and Macedonian would be something like Czech and Slovak. Like Czech and Slovak, Bulgarian and Macedonian were standardized on different dialects (Bulgarian was standardized primarily on dialects typical of eastern Bulgaria while Macedonian was standardized primarily on dialects typical of central Macedonia). A hypothetical "Bulgaronian" or "Bulgaro-Macedonian" language would probably have come to life if language planners had chosen some sub-dialect that is currently classified as "eastern Macedonian" or "southwestern Bulgarian". The analogy to a hypothetical "Czechoslovak" language would probably involve language planners having chosen to standardize using a subdialect spoken near Hodonín in southeastern Moravia which is pretty much indistinguishable from what passes off as dialect in Skalica in Slovakia. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5138 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 275 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Köszönöm a információt. Látom, hogy beszélsz szlovákul. Engem érdekel, mennyibe értesz a cseh nyelvet? Én beszélek csehül és azt hiszem, hogy értem 75% szlovákul, talán többet, ez attól függ honnan szlovákiában vannak az emberek, például az embereket Bratiszlávától értem talán 85%, de az embereket a kereti résztől értem kévésebben, talán csak 40% vagy kévésebb. Természetesen, a cseh emberek értik 99.9% a szlovák nyelvet Bratiszlávától (a nyugati nyelvjárást). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 276 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Something important. Bulgarian was standartized one century earlier than Macedonian. Macedonian literary language was created only after the 2nd WW. Bulgarian in reality was standartized on the base of the westernmost dialects of Eastern Bulgarian, basicly on the dialect spoken in the area of Veliko Tarnovo. This was done because this is the dialect that is the nearest to both Western and Eastern dialects. Interesting fact that in the are of Sofia the dialect traditionally spoken is closer to the Macedonian literary language, than to the Bulgarian! In reality its impossible to say if any dialect is a dialect of the Bulgarian or of the Macedonian language. The distinction is artificial. You can find two persons speaking the SAME dialect, and one of them claiming he speaks Bulgarian, and the other claiming he speaks Macedonian. So this issue is not linguistic, this is a pure political issue. If someone considers himself as of Bulgarian ethnicity, he will say he speaks Bulgarian, no matter what is his native dialect. If someone considers himself as of Macedonian ethnicity, he will say he speaks Macedonian, no matter what is his native dialect. Even now, the differences between the two literary languages are minimal, mainly of lexical nature. There is not a single grammatical feature found in one of the two languages that is absent in the other language. I had a funny case with a Hungarian friend in Bulgaria. He worked in Bulgaria for 2 years and learned Bulgarian at an intermediate level. One weekend he went to Macedonia to see Ohrid. He spoke Bulgarian there, and one time a Macedonian asked him where was he from. He answered that he was from Hungary. Then the Macedonian asked him where he had learned Macedonian. My Hungarian friend answered "I have never learned Macedonian, but I work in Sofia and speak a little bit Bulgarian". :-) Edited by maxval on 16 March 2011 at 2:22pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 277 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
About the name of Bratislava. In Hungarian all former Hungarian cities are used with their original Hungarian names. So Bratislava is Pozsony in Hungarian. Maybe you dont know this fact: Bratislava was the capital of Hungary since 1526 until 1848. Hungary had 5 different capitals in its history. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5138 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 278 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I knew that Bratislava was the capital at some time in the past but I didn't know that it was for more than 300 years! That's very surprising for me. I also didn't know that it's known as Pozsony in Hungarian. What were the other 3 former capitals? Mit szerint (mi szerinte?) egy átlag magyar? Azt akarja, hogy a előző magyar részek Szlovákiában, Ausztriában, az előző Jugoszláviában és Romaniában vannak (probably should be the imperative mood here but I still haven't learned the forms of it) ismét magyarországon? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 279 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The first capital was Székesfehérvár at the very beginning of the Hungarian Kingdom, then Esztergom, and since the 15th century was Buda. When Buda was occupied by the Turks, the capital was moved to Bratislava. After then Buda (Budapest) again. Debrecen was the capital for a few months in 1849 and alsp for a few months in 1944-1945. You know in 1944-1945 there were TWO Hungarian governments - like now in Libya... :-) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4862 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 280 of 1549 16 March 2011 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
After the WWI Hungary lost 75 % of its territory and 65 % of its population. But it is important to say that "only" 30 % of the lost population was ethnically Hungarian. Now the former territory of Hungary is in 10 present day countries: Hungary, Slovakia, Ukraine, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Poland, Italy. There is significant Hungarian population in Southern Slovakia, the border area of Ukraine with Hungary, Northern Vojvodina in Serbia, Székelyföld and part of Northern Transylvania in Romania. Territorial revisionism was official policy of the Hungarian governments between the two WWs, but even then only the ethnically Hungarian territories were recuperated in 1938-1941 (and lost again in 1945-1947). Opinions are different. Even now there are Hungarians with a revisionist opinion. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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