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Hungarian - January challenge thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes  Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 889 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Ooops! Obviously I know this but it slipped out in translation from my English original!
This mistake was a result of my lack of exposure to the maguk form, I have no feeling for it and because the verb forms are the same for the 2nd person and 3rd person plural formal endings, I automatically made them the same when conjugating 'től'. So it should be in the 2nd person plural formal form. By the way, would this be correct in this situation that somebody would shout at unknown but potentially dangerous strangers in this form? Or would they use the 'ti' form? I need practice with both anyway. Edited by hribecek on 20 November 2011 at 7:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 890 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I just wanted to ask you whether Irish and Scottish are mutually understandable? But obviously you dont know the answer. Are there any people who use the Scottish Gaelic in everydays life? I know that there are enthusiasts who learn the language, and I know there are in Scotland street signs in Gaelic, but are there people who REALLY speak it? You know, if there was no language revival in the 1st part of the 19th century in Hungary, now probably Hungarian language would be in the position of Scottish, Irish or Welsh. Now Hungarians would be German native speakers. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 891 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
In this context it is more natural the informal form (ti), 2nd person. Saying "I will beat/kill you" in 3rd formal form is not usual. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 892 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I've only heard it personally on Jura, although I think they were only using it so that we wouldn't understand so I don't know how much they use it there.
There are definitely people who go about their life in the language though, although I doubt there's anybody who can avoid using English completely, even in the remote Western Isles. I expect only very young children are monolingual Scottish Gaelic speakers. I suppose that you know that Irish Gaelic and especially Welsh are used more and there are many Welsh people who feel more comfortable speaking Welsh than English. Welsh is one of the languages I'd most like to study next, because as someone from the British Isles, I feel like I should know one of our older (and slightly more [at least more than English] indigenous languages.) English always feels to me to be without identity. Edited by hribecek on 20 November 2011 at 5:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 893 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What's the history behind the 'csango' (is that right?) dialect of Hungarian by the way?
I know it's been talked about here before but not in depth. Do speakers of that dialect speak typical Hungarian too? Do you understand them? Do they learn the dialect at school or is it an unwritten language? How many native speakers are there? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 894 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is interesting. But on the other side, it is a big advantage for you that the international language of our era is your native language. You - and other English native speakers - are in the position of a Roman from the era between 1st century BC and 4th century AD - speaking Latin as a native language. De facto English is todays Latin. Even more! Latin was limited to Europe, North Africa and Western Asia (and Latin was not the only language of that era, it was only one of the two important languages, as there was a very important role of Greek too*), while now English is in all the world and has no real rival. * All Latin native speaker Roman children studied Greek as compulsory in the school, and it was considered that every educated Roman must know Greek. Edited by maxval on 20 November 2011 at 6:41pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 895 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Csángó is the only Hungarian dialect that is not mutually understandable with other dialects. In reality it is the only surviving Hungarian dialects, all other dialects are loosing position every day. This process is quick. An example: when as young children (in the second half of 70s and the beginning of 80s) we went to the Balaton lake in summer, there was still a noticeable difference between our (Budapest) speech and the speech of the children living there - we told them "you are speaking funny as peasants", and they told us "you are speaking funny like in the television". Now there is only very minor differences in the speech of the younger generations! This is also a specific Hungarian social problem. Every person tries to forget his own dialect, as speaking in a dialect is widely considered "lack of education". It may be strange for you, I know in English this is not the case. Everyone who doesnt speak the Standard Oxford English is not considered in the UK or in the US an uncultivated, barbaric person. So everyone is speaking Standard Hungarian. The dialectal differences are very, very small. For example in most dialects there is a 15th vowel, while in Standard there are only 14. And this is valid not only for Hungary, but also for Hungarian communities in Slovakia, Serbia, Ukraine, Romania. The only exception is Csángó. It was developed out of the borders of Hungary, not only out of the actual borders, but also out of the pre-WWI borders. There are 300 thousand csángó people, but 200 thousands are Romanian native speakers and dont know Hungarian or know only little Hungarian. 100 thousands are Hungarian native speakers, but they usually speak only the Csángó dialect, not Standard Hungarian. But csángó is mostly spoken only. They use Romanian in writing. There are attempts to have there Hungarian teaching. Part of the csángó people go to Hungarian schools in Transylvania, and they learn Standard Hungarian. Those who go to Hungarian or Hungarian-speaking Romanian higher education, also learn well Standard Hungarian. I had contact with two Csángó brothers a few years ago. They spoke Hungarian as a foreigner maybe as level B2, but told me that their grandmothers native language was Csángó and she even didnt speak well Romanian. When talking one to other, they preferred to speak in Romanian. Edited by maxval on 20 November 2011 at 6:41pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 896 of 1549 20 November 2011 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is very interesting. Have you ever heard native csángó speakers speak their dialect? How much do you understand? Can you explain why you think Hungarians have developed this attitude to dialects in their language? You're right that if anything dialects are viewed in the opposite way by English speakers in the UK. People are proud of their dialect and my Scottish friend who has a standard English accent is actually a little ashamed that he doesn't have a Scottish accent (he lived in England for a long time). Personally I have a quite standard accent (when I say standard, I mean something like BBC English!), although someone from outside the South East of England would say I have a London Cockney accent. Funnily though a real London Cockney speaker would say that I speak nothing like them and speak completely standard or the Queen's English! The truth is somewhere in between. Maybe the pride in dialects is due to a desire for identity in English. I know I'm very lucky to have been with this advantage and it's given me the opportunity to ravel the world and use it in teaching. I still can't help but feel a little bit of disdain for English though because I see how it's eating into other languages. That's the language geek in me speaking though. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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