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Hungarian - January challenge thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes  Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 553 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
A gyakorlás sokat segít. Nekem az az érzésem, hogy vannak bizonyos dolgok, amelyeket nagyon jól tudsz, viszont más dolgokról meg egyáltalán nem is hallottál. Lehet, hogy a könyvedben még nem jutottál el ahhoz a részhez, melyben ez utóbbi dolgok szerepelnek... Pl. nem tanultad még, hogy a z-végű igék feltételes módjában a j-ből mindig z lesz? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 554 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
Nem értem pontosan ezt a mondatot. Megpróbálom lefordítani. For example, have you learned yet that ?z verbs in the conditional always change from j to z??. Sorry, I don't understand, as you can see! But I think the answer is no, I haven't learned this yet, whatever it is! Igazad van, hogy sok dolog van, amit még nem tanultam. És más dolog van, amit elfelejtettem. Meg kell sokat ismételnem és gyakorolnom. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 555 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
OK. I will try to clarify this. Verbs whose stem ends in -dz, -s, -sz, -z behave differently EVEN in present tense, indicative mood: 1. the 2nd person, singular, indefinite form is not -sz / -asz / -esz, but -ol / -el / -öl - example olvasOL, and not *olvasSZ*, as would be expected. 2. In all forms where there is a "j" in the ending (this is: 3rd person, singular and all persons, plural, definite conjugation for back vowel harmony type and 1st person, plural, definite conjugation for front vowel harmony type), the "j" changes: - into "z" for stems ending in -dz and -z - example: végezZÜK, and not *végezJÜK*, as would be expected, - into "sz" for stems ending in -sz - example másszuk (mász-SZUK), and not *mászJUK*, as would be expected, - into "s" for stems ending in -s - example mosSUK, and not *mosJUK*, as would be expected. Did you know that? If yes, we can continue into the conditional. Edited by maxval on 08 May 2011 at 5:57pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 556 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
Okay I see, yes I have studied this briefly before and was aware of it, however when writing I'm sure I forgot it most or maybe all of the time. Hopefully I'll be more aware of it now that you've drawn attention to it here, it should stick more now. You can move on to the conditional now if you don't mind? By the way, while I'm here, are they any set rules for when to use 'a' or 'o' in vowel harmony? For example 'kulcsot', is there any way for me to recognise that it should be 'kulcsot' and not 'kulcsat'? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 557 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is very difficult. This is the same as with verb endings. There is even no clear rule when the ending is with a predecessor vowel, and when without it. Some verbs are conjugated in both versions, sometimes with a stylistic difference between them. For example: hallSZ and hallASZ are both correct. If it is "o" or "a" ther is no clear rule neither... I am sorry... :-) Edited by maxval on 08 May 2011 at 6:20pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 558 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
It seems I am too tired today... I wanted to say "imperative", not conditional! Sorry! In the imperative mood, with verbs whose stem ends in -dz, -s, -sz or -z, it is the same as in the present tense, indicative. In all forms where there is a "j" in the ending, the "j" changes: - into "z" for stems ending in -dz and -z - example: végezZEM, and not *végezJEM*, as would be expected, - into "sz" for stems ending in -sz - example másszuk (mász-SZUK), and not *mászJUK*, as would be expected, - into "s" for stems ending in -s - example mosSUK, and not *mosJUK*, as would be expected. Also there is a change in verb stems ending in -t! If there is a short vowel before the "t", then both the "t" and the "j" changes into "s": fut + j = FUSS If there is a long vowel before the "t" or another consonant (with the exeception of "s" and "sz"), then the "j" changes into "s": fordít + j = FORDÍTS If there is a "s" before the "t", then the "j" changes into "s" and the "t" disappears: fest + j = FESS If there is a "sz" before the "t", then the "j" changes into "sz" and the "t" disappears: fogyaszt + j = FOGYASSZ (fogyasz-sz) Of course, there are exceptions too... there are 3 exceptions: bocsát, lát, lót - that have their imperative not with "ts", but with "ss". Edited by maxval on 08 May 2011 at 7:43pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5139 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 559 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is all very useful and probably difficult to remember in the middle of speaking or even writing but I'll try to employ it. I had read briefly about this too but it's coming up very soon in my book, so with those exercises and your explanation here, hopefully I'll have at least some success with it. I was wondering what new information you were going to give me about the conditional! So I'm glad you meant the imperative. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 4863 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 560 of 1549 08 May 2011 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
:-))) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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