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maxval
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
Joined 4863 days ago
852 posts - 1577 votes 
Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew
| Message 873 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 1:15pm | IP Logged |
hribecek wrote:
Át akarnak mászni három hegyen
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Please translate this into English. I want to be sure what you meant here! Maybe I didnt understand you correctly in this case.
And I want to use the opportunity to ask a few English questions to you. I started learning Latin 2 weeks ago (in reality I restarted learning it, 20 years ago at the university I had two semesters completed on Latin, I had a good A1 level, but since then I forgot almost everything). As always, I am using English textbooks and other materials for learning Latin. This way I am practicing English too. (And there are much more materials available for almost any language in English than in any other language. This is valid for Latin too.)
But now I have two English questions.
- Please explain what is the exact difference between "bellow" and "under". I thought until yesterday they were the same. Yet the Latin book explains one Latin word with "bellow" and the other with "under", so obviously there is a real difference.
- I have almost the same problem with "over" and "above". In this case I think that I understand the difference, but I am not sure. I translate "over the mountain" as "a hegyen", and "above the mountain" as "a hegy felett", am I right? (Unfortunately this analogy doesnt help for bellow/under.)
1 person has voted this message useful
| hribecek
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5139 days ago
1243 posts - 1458 votes
Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian
| Message 874 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 3:43pm | IP Logged |
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
Át akarnak mászni három hegyen
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|
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Please translate this into English. I want to be sure what you meant here! Maybe I didnt understand you correctly in this case. |
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They want to climb over 3 mountains.
1 person has voted this message useful
| maxval
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
Joined 4863 days ago
852 posts - 1577 votes
Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew
| Message 875 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 3:53pm | IP Logged |
hribecek wrote:
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
Át akarnak mászni három hegyen
|
|
|
Please translate this into English. I want to be sure what you meant here! Maybe I didnt understand you correctly in this case. |
|
|
They want to climb over 3 mountains.
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|
|
OK. I was wondering if it is "climb over" or simply "climb".
The first is "átmászik", the second is "mászik" or "megmászik".
Basically, "átmászik" sounds a little bit strange! "Átmászik a falon" is OK, but "átmásztam a hegyen" is not a mistake, but a little bit unusual.
Alpinists normally "megmásszák a hegyet" and not "átmásznak a hegyen".
2 persons have voted this message useful
| hribecek
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5139 days ago
1243 posts - 1458 votes
Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian
| Message 876 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 3:57pm | IP Logged |
maxval wrote:
And I want to use the opportunity to ask a few English questions to you. I started learning Latin 2 weeks ago (in reality I restarted learning it, 20 years ago at the university I had two semesters completed on Latin, I had a good A1 level, but since then I forgot almost everything). As always, I am using English textbooks and other materials for learning Latin. This way I am practicing English too. (And there are much more materials available for almost any language in English than in any other language. This is valid for Latin too.)
But now I have two English questions.
- Please explain what is the exact difference between "bellow" and "under". I thought until yesterday they were the same. Yet the Latin book explains one Latin word with "bellow" and the other with "under", so obviously there is a real difference.
- I have almost the same problem with "over" and "above". In this case I think that I understand the difference, but I am not sure. I translate "over the mountain" as "a hegyen", and "above the mountain" as "a hegy felett", am I right? (Unfortunately this analogy doesnt help for bellow/under.) |
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You're right that they're different and the differences are very small but still noticeable by a native speaker when a foreigner uses the wrong one.
I can't compare it to Hungarian because obviously my Hungarian isn't good enough so I can't confirm if your feeling for the translation is correct.
ABOVE is the opposite of BELOW and OVER is the opposite of UNDER in the physical location meaning.
Both can mean HIGHER THAN or LOWER THAN but ABOVE and BELOW are more cvommon in this way.
OVER and UNDER are correct when something is covering something or being covered by something.
If the thing above or below the object is TOUCHING the other object that we would usually say OVER or UNDER. (hope that sentence isn't confusing!)
ABOVE and BELOW don't have to be directly above or below something. For example 'my house is above/below a train station' is correct. If you say 'my house is over/under a train station' then it means that they're in the same building.
Is this clear enough?
This should cover the physical location difference.
2 persons have voted this message useful
| hribecek
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5139 days ago
1243 posts - 1458 votes
Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian
| Message 877 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 3:59pm | IP Logged |
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
Át akarnak mászni három hegyen
|
|
|
Please translate this into English. I want to be sure what you meant here! Maybe I didnt understand you correctly in this case. |
|
|
They want to climb over 3 mountains.
|
|
|
OK. I was wondering if it is "climb over" or simply "climb".
The first is "átmászik", the second is "mászik" or "megmászik".
Basically, "átmászik" sounds a little bit strange! "Átmászik a falon" is OK, but "átmásztam a hegyen" is not a mistake, but a little bit unusual.
Alpinists normally "megmásszák a hegyet" and not "átmásznak a hegyen". |
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|
They want to go from one side of the mountain range to the other so that's why in English it would be climb over. 'Climb' would just be 'go up and back down again'.
2 persons have voted this message useful
| maxval
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
Joined 4863 days ago
852 posts - 1577 votes
Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew
| Message 878 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 4:05pm | IP Logged |
hribecek wrote:
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
Át akarnak mászni három hegyen
|
|
|
Please translate this into English. I want to be sure what you meant here! Maybe I didnt understand you correctly in this case. |
|
|
They want to climb over 3 mountains.
|
|
|
OK. I was wondering if it is "climb over" or simply "climb".
The first is "átmászik", the second is "mászik" or "megmászik".
Basically, "átmászik" sounds a little bit strange! "Átmászik a falon" is OK, but "átmásztam a hegyen" is not a mistake, but a little bit unusual.
Alpinists normally "megmásszák a hegyet" and not "átmásznak a hegyen". |
|
|
They want to go from one side of the mountain range to the other so that's why in English it would be climb over. 'Climb' would just be 'go up and back down again'. |
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In this case is OK. Their main purpose obviously is not to climb to 3 mountain peaks, but simply to go from one part of the island to the other thru 3 mountains.
1 person has voted this message useful
| maxval
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
Joined 4863 days ago
852 posts - 1577 votes
Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew
| Message 879 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 4:09pm | IP Logged |
hribecek wrote:
maxval wrote:
And I want to use the opportunity to ask a few English questions to you. I started learning Latin 2 weeks ago (in reality I restarted learning it, 20 years ago at the university I had two semesters completed on Latin, I had a good A1 level, but since then I forgot almost everything). As always, I am using English textbooks and other materials for learning Latin. This way I am practicing English too. (And there are much more materials available for almost any language in English than in any other language. This is valid for Latin too.)
But now I have two English questions.
- Please explain what is the exact difference between "bellow" and "under". I thought until yesterday they were the same. Yet the Latin book explains one Latin word with "bellow" and the other with "under", so obviously there is a real difference.
- I have almost the same problem with "over" and "above". In this case I think that I understand the difference, but I am not sure. I translate "over the mountain" as "a hegyen", and "above the mountain" as "a hegy felett", am I right? (Unfortunately this analogy doesnt help for bellow/under.) |
|
|
You're right that they're different and the differences are very small but still noticeable by a native speaker when a foreigner uses the wrong one.
I can't compare it to Hungarian because obviously my Hungarian isn't good enough so I can't confirm if your feeling for the translation is correct.
ABOVE is the opposite of BELOW and OVER is the opposite of UNDER in the physical location meaning.
Both can mean HIGHER THAN or LOWER THAN but ABOVE and BELOW are more cvommon in this way.
OVER and UNDER are correct when something is covering something or being covered by something.
If the thing above or below the object is TOUCHING the other object that we would usually say OVER or UNDER. (hope that sentence isn't confusing!)
ABOVE and BELOW don't have to be directly above or below something. For example 'my house is above/below a train station' is correct. If you say 'my house is over/under a train station' then it means that they're in the same building.
Is this clear enough?
This should cover the physical location difference. |
|
|
I think I understand. So, for example, my belly is bellow my nose, but it is not under my nose. And my mouth is both bellow and under my nose.
1 person has voted this message useful
| hribecek
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5139 days ago
1243 posts - 1458 votes
Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian
| Message 880 of 1549 15 November 2011 at 5:21pm | IP Logged |
maxval wrote:
hribecek wrote:
maxval wrote:
And I want to use the opportunity to ask a few English questions to you. I started learning Latin 2 weeks ago (in reality I restarted learning it, 20 years ago at the university I had two semesters completed on Latin, I had a good A1 level, but since then I forgot almost everything). As always, I am using English textbooks and other materials for learning Latin. This way I am practicing English too. (And there are much more materials available for almost any language in English than in any other language. This is valid for Latin too.)
But now I have two English questions.
- Please explain what is the exact difference between "bellow" and "under". I thought until yesterday they were the same. Yet the Latin book explains one Latin word with "bellow" and the other with "under", so obviously there is a real difference.
- I have almost the same problem with "over" and "above". In this case I think that I understand the difference, but I am not sure. I translate "over the mountain" as "a hegyen", and "above the mountain" as "a hegy felett", am I right? (Unfortunately this analogy doesnt help for bellow/under.) |
|
|
You're right that they're different and the differences are very small but still noticeable by a native speaker when a foreigner uses the wrong one.
I can't compare it to Hungarian because obviously my Hungarian isn't good enough so I can't confirm if your feeling for the translation is correct.
ABOVE is the opposite of BELOW and OVER is the opposite of UNDER in the physical location meaning.
Both can mean HIGHER THAN or LOWER THAN but ABOVE and BELOW are more cvommon in this way.
OVER and UNDER are correct when something is covering something or being covered by something.
If the thing above or below the object is TOUCHING the other object that we would usually say OVER or UNDER. (hope that sentence isn't confusing!)
ABOVE and BELOW don't have to be directly above or below something. For example 'my house is above/below a train station' is correct. If you say 'my house is over/under a train station' then it means that they're in the same building.
Is this clear enough?
This should cover the physical location difference. |
|
|
I think I understand. So, for example, my belly is bellow my nose, but it is not under my nose. And my mouth is both bellow and under my nose. |
|
|
Both could be used in both these cases.
Often they're interchangeable but if the 2 things are touching and one completely covers the other than it would usually (I always say usually when explaining something in English because otherwise it has a habit of coming back to bite me because of an exception!) be OVER and UNDER.
The case when you can only use ABOVE and BELOW is when it's not directly over something. Like I said with the station example.
My balcony is ABOVE a park. (The park is in front of the balcony and not under it but lower than it obviously.)
My balcony looks OVER a park. (because the range of your view covers the park.)
A lot of the time you can use both and it's just these 2 main differences in location.
1. The touching/covering rule. OVER and UNDER
2. The not being directly over the thing rule. ABOVE and BELOW
Otherwise when talking about location they are USUALLY both possible.
Edited by hribecek on 15 November 2011 at 5:27pm
2 persons have voted this message useful
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