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How many words you learn per year (avg) | ||
Tags: Poll | Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5232 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 9 of 229 30 April 2015 at 5:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Not surprisingly, I totally disagree with the wording of the question. I think the intentions are good but the
implementation is faulty. First of all, as was pointed out, the definition of a word is very contentious, so the figures don't really mean anything. As for learning a word, a lot can be said about that but I want to point out that one aspect of learning a word can be having used the word when speaking or writing the language. In other words, I believe that one truly learns a word when one has actually used the word properly. Everything else is more or less recognizing the word graphically and plenty of guessing. In this perspective we meet thousands of words that we never end up using. That's interesting and entertaining but it doesn't mean that we have learned the words. Therefore, one way of rephrasing the question of this survey would be something like: How many new and different words have you have you used on the average in the last five years? The wording is not the best, I admit, but the idea is there. In this case, I would probably answer for myself 200 - 300 new words enter my working vocabulary every year. I may see thousands of words go by and I duly note them but I use very few of them when I speak or write. For example, I write two pages of Spanish a week to be corrected with my tutor. That's about 800 running words and probably around 250 different words. That, of course, does not mean 250 new words a week. Hell no, it's more like 5 - 10 brand new words that I've never used before. So, after a year I have a working vocabulary of around 750 words that I have actually used in the past year. I may recognize 8000 words but the plain fact is that in the past year I've only used less than 3000. Edited by s_allard on 30 April 2015 at 5:32am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4151 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 10 of 229 30 April 2015 at 10:41am | IP Logged | ||
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You're neglecting the fact that production doesn't guarantee recognition (for lack of a
better word). I.e., you may be able to use a word correctly, but not understand/remember it when seeing it used by someone else (even in the very same meaning). In other words, they are of course related, but one doesn't guarantee the other, nor is one better than the other. And as for narrowing it down only to the ones you have actually used... Some people study languages like Biblical Hebrew, for example. I don't suppose most of them have many conversations in it. And some words may be just not "meant" for them. Like, I don't really see myself using the words あたし, or かしら in Japanese. That's because they're generally used by women. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4711 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 11 of 229 30 April 2015 at 11:24am | IP Logged | ||
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I expected your objection, s_allard, but this poll is more interesting to me than the one you propose, even if it might not be as useful for judging language progress. Most of us wouldn't be able to give even a reasonable estimate of the number of different words we use, unless we were only tracking our writing. So for the poll I went with something most of us could give a reasonable estimate of, even though I knew you wouldn't agree with the framing of the question.
There is one reason people often focus on vocabulary size, and why some people go overboard on it. It is simply one of the few things in language learning which is easily measurable. And of course you can debate the boundaries of a word, discuss passive v active all day long. In fact, I think passive/active is far too binary, whereas in fact there is a wide spectrum of knowledge. Some words I recognize instantly, but would never use, some words I use when writing but would never speak or the reverse. Some words always trip me up even in my own language, for example I tried to say "ecumenism" a few times this morning and the effect was comical. I still maintain that I "know" the word. I have read several research articles that focus on vocabulary size, vocabulary learnt, etc. They all go through the same caveats at the beginning about how they define a word, and what it means to know a word. On the other hand, I can't remember coming across any research article which tries to measure "new items of vocabulary used". This isn't because it wouldn't be useful to know, it's because it would be too difficult to measure with current technology. Edited by Jeffers on 30 April 2015 at 11:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4819 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 12 of 229 30 April 2015 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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3 answers are missing in this poll
Zero I don't count All of them 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5232 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 13 of 229 30 April 2015 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think that Jeffers points are well taken. I certainly recognize that one of the reasons some people focus on
vocabulary size is that it seems easily measurable. That's the problem. It seems easily measurable when in fact it isn't. Which is why linguistics, generally speaking, is not interested in this at all. Where we see some interest in vocabulary size is in second language teaching and testing, especially in English. In French for example, there is virtually no recent academic interest in counting words. Putting aside for the moment the contentious issue of what is a word, I suggest that learning a word can have various meanings. As I pointed out, one can learn to recognize a word and its meaning. At the same time, we never use this word in our own speech or writing. Traditionally, we call this passive vocabulary. On the other hand, we incorporate new words into our actual speech and writing, our so-called active vocabulary. This is a fundamental distinction. Most of the studies of vocabulary size focus on passive vocabulary because this is easier to do and is important for second language testing. One of the most egregious examples of this is those Internet tests of vocabulary size that purport to tell you the size of your vocabulary after you answer around 10 questions. I believe that active vocabulary is the heart of the matter. This is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. It's not about how many words you think or guestimate you know or can use, but how many do come out of your mouth or your hand. Sure, there are very few studies because there are enormous methodological challenges, such as defining a word. But what we do know is that people only use a fraction of all the words they claim to know. I'm flabbergasted to read that people learn thousands of words a year or know 10000 words in a foreign language when there is no indication of how well these people can actually use these words when push comes to shove. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4509 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 14 of 229 30 April 2015 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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I must be very different from you then, because besides any routine interactions I
actually intentionally try to use a wide variety of vocabulary in my writing and speech. You should know the obscure words I come across in Russian every day that I actually use in speech. I have used words in blog articles that my teachers had to look up and confirm to be correct. And they were. And I used them on purpose. If you're using the same 3000 words all the time, you're not doing a lot of very broad all-round practice. I try to be more varied than that so that I don't get stuck in the majority of situations I may encounter (and I still fail every day and every week). 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3344 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 15 of 229 30 April 2015 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | ||
Too late. You just used those words. To say "never say never" one must nonetheless say 'never' (twice in fact). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5038 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 16 of 229 30 April 2015 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | ||
Word: a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning. Contentious: causing, involving, or characterized by argument or controversy. Am I missing something? When did the "what is a word" become controversial? 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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