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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5667 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 17 of 134 13 February 2014 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
And i've been adding things from here, which has pretty bad formatting. I think i figured out why it's "removing" the spaces, it's 'cuz the site uses the "pre" tag so there aren't any manual line or paragraph breaks. A nice thing about ReadLang is that you can share your texts, i think a button in the "My Texts" page to share your text would be great. That way i can format the text then share it. EDIT: And how about the ability to edit/see a list of texts/URLs you've added? And perhaps the option to give a manual title (and translation) of the text? I like that it's really simple, but it's not always that accurate. Another option would be for users to suggest translations to the title. You could either manually check them, have volunteers to check them, have a voting system (though i don't think that's always that accurate), or have the user who shared the text be notified of the suggestion and optionally choose to approve or deny it, though users don't always stick around that long. Also, the option to add URLs disappeared from "My Texts" after i added a text with the + button. I'm not sure if that's intentional or not. Edited by Crush on 13 February 2014 at 7:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4055 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 18 of 134 14 February 2014 at 11:50am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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If you manage to implement the verb prefix thing the same code could be used to attach reflexive pronouns to reflexive verbs in Romance, Germanic and Slavic languages at least.
About not treating each conjugated word as a new vocabulary token, in Finnish we have particles that respond to words like "also" so if one could for example add the singular nominative/first infinitive to the translation checking thing and then the code would group the ones with the same basic form automatically or something, that would be grand. For example: "Moni kierrätykseen viety kodinkone löytää vielä uuden omistajan" Eng: "taken", 1st infinitive "viedä" Another idea that would be great were if one could attach information about the etymological root of the word especially in Russian. For example: Библиотечные книги на русском теперь можно заказывать по почте заказывать - to order, book, bespeak (imperf.) from the root "каз-", seem, appear, express Also once the text is implemented it would be grand to have markers to add to the text so that the sentence that is being spoken in the audio would be highlighted in the color of your choosing to facilitate following the text. Just some ideas I would like, I don't know how doable these are but hey, at least they're something. In any case I'm looking forward to provide at least some content to the Finnish library once the audio has been implemented. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Yaan Triglot Groupie France Joined 3876 days ago 61 posts - 88 votes Speaks: French*, English, Mandarin Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 19 of 134 14 February 2014 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
As for 1), I think merging conjugated/declined words has negative consequences too. Let's take an example in English, I may know the word "eat", but not the word "ate", same for child/children, man/men, etc. I may know one conjugated form, but not the other conjugated forms, etc. In those cases, it makes sense to keep conjugated/declined words separated. Could you explain a bit more about 2), I don't understand everything :)
A voting system for the title seems overly complicated for this case, since the English title serve "just" as hint. I agree that letting the user correct the formatting issues is necessary. We are working on this right now :) Should be ready very soon. As for the add/+ buttonS, thank you for pointing out the bad UI design, we will make it more intuitive. Currently, the green Add button allows you to add URLs, the red one (My Texts section) allows you to add private texts. Edited by Yaan on 14 February 2014 at 5:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Yaan Triglot Groupie France Joined 3876 days ago 61 posts - 88 votes Speaks: French*, English, Mandarin Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 20 of 134 14 February 2014 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Here is a way to deal with the conjugaison. 1. When clicking on "vielä". We can display a definition like this: {viedä} take / bring away / steal / export (BTW, this is the dictionary entry format used at lingocracy: {base word} meaning1 / meaning2 / meaning3, inspired by the chinese dictionary CEDICT http://cc-cedict.org/wiki/format:syntax) 2. We can add a button for displaying (in a nice popup) a simplified version of the conjugaison table like this What do you think about this?
Technically this is already possible. What we lack if the data. You can enter any information in the custom dictionary entries on Lingocracy. Of course, if we find a good dictionary with etymologies we will add it. This is exactly what we have done for Japanese (EDICT) and Chinese (CEDICT). For example, if you study Chinese on Lingocracy, you get nice definitions like this one: sinogram [pronounciation] meanings 中国 [Zhong1 guo2] China / Middle Kingdom The problem is that there is no free quality dictionary for many languages.
Sure, I see the usefulness of syncing the audio with the text. Edited by Yaan on 14 February 2014 at 5:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5667 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 21 of 134 14 February 2014 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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As for #1, i think that just makes the unknown word count off. Maybe i've seen the word "hablas" in a Spanish text, but hablo, habla, hablamos, hablé, habláramos, hablarán, hablar, etc. will all be marked as different words. The same with plurals and declined forms. In the end, eat and ate are part of the same word, even if it's irregular. Going on that, i always thought it would be nice to see information on the form the verb is possibly in, maybe pulling information from verbix or some other similar site. Similar to Henkkles suggestion (which would also be really cool!). I think i mentioned it a couple years back in the LWT thread. For example, clicking on the Spanish word "habla" would show you, along with the definition, something like:
hablar 3rd pers sg, pres (or maybe él, ella, ello, usted, pres) 2nd pers sg, imper(ative) Clicking on "sienta" would show you: sentar 3rd pers sg, pres 2nd pers sg, imper sentir 3rd pers sg, pres subj 2nd pers sg usted, imper Essentially it just tells you what form the verb is in. For nouns or adjectives, you could show what case(s) the word is in. It'd be a lot of work, but would be really helpful when starting off reading and you don't know cases/conjugations aswell. Anyway, i won't insist on grouping conjugated words together, but it's something i personally would like ;) As for #2, take the following German sentence: Wie bringe ich einer Katze am besten das Yoga bei? (How can I best teach a cat yoga) Here you have the verb beibringen, but bei is a separable prefix that generally goes at the end of the clause. Like English phrasal verbs that can separate from their preposition. I can't think of a way you could analyze a sentence to check for these types of structures, so my idea was having a way to manually connect them. For example, first clicking on "bringe" then clicking on "bei". Perhaps once it was established as a phrasal verb it would show up that way for other users who read the story (as well as in vocabulary, it would be treated as beibringen instead of two separate words). I don't see these as easy things to do, but it's what my ideal program would be. Anyway, thanks for following up! EDIT: You also have the same feature in English in sentences like "I always take the trash that you throw on the floor out in the morning". It'd be really hard to detect that take ... out forms the phrasal verb "to take out". Even Chinese has separable words, for example 帮个忙 for 帮忙, 做你的梦 for 做梦, etc. Edited by Crush on 14 February 2014 at 6:09pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| CaucusWolf Senior Member United States Joined 5074 days ago 191 posts - 234 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Arabic (Written), Japanese | Message 22 of 134 14 February 2014 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I think the overall idea is great. However, the fact that there is only two articles in
Arabic is disappointing. Also, I've found google translate to be a decent dictionary tool for MWA when you're looking up individual words only. This is because sentences often come out incoherent. Google translate is also completely useless when trying to figure out dialect words. Furthermore, this would be little if any use to the beginner or low intermediate as far as Arabic is concerned because of the lack of content and complexity of the sentences used in the short story. As far as Japanese there is a variety of content that I'll check out when I achieve an intermediate level in reading. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5667 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 23 of 134 14 February 2014 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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If a language is lacking in articles, you can just add your own. I think that's the general idea, find your own articles, share them, read them.
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| Yaan Triglot Groupie France Joined 3876 days ago 61 posts - 88 votes Speaks: French*, English, Mandarin Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 24 of 134 15 February 2014 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
#1 Ok, I got the idea. It's completly feasible, that will just require some time to implement. I also feel that this should be implemented soon, otherwise learners will create custom dictionary entries like "3rd pers sg, pres". That will be quite messy since there is no structure, e.g. you will get info for habláramos but not hablarán. #2 This happen for many languages, basically it's about grouping words A and B, while you have some random words X, Y and Z in the middle. (example sentence: A X Y Z B). Analyzing this kind of structure is very very difficult. So, don't expect this to be implementend soon :)
Yes, the limits of Google translate are well known. That's why for some languages like Chinese and Japanese we already use a complementary dictionary (CEDICT and EDICT). We will add better dictionaries and content for more languages soon. We also rely on users and hope that some of the readers will add content and dictionary entries. It's not easy to manage 50+ languages all by ourself :) . Edited by Yaan on 15 February 2014 at 5:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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