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Why do people hate Esperanto?

 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto Post Reply
72 messages over 9 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 4 ... 8 9 Next >>
Rabochnok
Diglot
Newbie
Colombia
Joined 5407 days ago
37 posts - 59 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Turkish, Persian

 
 Message 25 of 72
08 May 2010 at 1:13am | IP Logged 
Juаn wrote:
Volte wrote:
Indeed, culture is tricky. Literature is simpler, though -
Esperanto has literature, for any sane definition of literature I can think of. There are a lot
of books in it, some of which are quite good, one of which was repeatedly nominated for
a Nobel prize in literature, etc.


Let's say I invent a language, Adxeds, where:

* action = bannemd
* and = siffe
* are = macvubv
* evil = caxosd
* from = lañolñakh
* good = sedeffad
* inseparable = arthirt

and then posit that sedeffad siffe caxosd macvubv arthirt lañolñakh bannemd.

Let's suppose further that I keep this up for a whole book, and that a couple thousand
scattered individuals across America and Europe become entranced by my new
language and write as many books, pamphlets and poems in it. Do we have now a
literature in Adxeds in the same sense that we have German or Russian or Arabic or
Indian literature and philosophy?

Yes, yes we would. It wouldn't be as long and storied as the Indian/Arab/Russian/German
ones, but it'd be real.

Edited to add quote.

Edited by Rabochnok on 08 May 2010 at 1:14am
4 persons have voted this message useful



GREGORG4000
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5320 days ago
307 posts - 479 votes 
Speaks: English*, Finnish
Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French

 
 Message 26 of 72
08 May 2010 at 1:28am | IP Logged 
I might add that I'd be one of the first to pick up Adxeds. Looks awesome.
1 person has voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6236 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 27 of 72
08 May 2010 at 1:39am | IP Logged 
Rabochnok wrote:
Juаn wrote:
Volte wrote:
Indeed, culture is tricky. Literature is simpler, though -
Esperanto has literature, for any sane definition of literature I can think of. There are a lot
of books in it, some of which are quite good, one of which was repeatedly nominated for
a Nobel prize in literature, etc.


Let's say I invent a language, Adxeds, where:

* action = bannemd
* and = siffe
* are = macvubv
* evil = caxosd
* from = lañolñakh
* good = sedeffad
* inseparable = arthirt

and then posit that sedeffad siffe caxosd macvubv arthirt lañolñakh bannemd.

Let's suppose further that I keep this up for a whole book, and that a couple thousand
scattered individuals across America and Europe become entranced by my new
language and write as many books, pamphlets and poems in it. Do we have now a
literature in Adxeds in the same sense that we have German or Russian or Arabic or
Indian literature and philosophy?

Yes, yes we would. It wouldn't be as long and storied as the Indian/Arab/Russian/German
ones, but it'd be real.

Edited to add quote.


With a few thousand books, I'd certainly say a language has a literature. Whether any given person finds it worth reading depends on the contents and quality of those books.

Many of the early Esperanto books were translations of great works from various languages, such as Russian, Polish, and Hungarian. A few decades later, it had a reasonable original literature.

Modern Esperanto doesn't rival the most significant world cultures in terms of original philosophical thought (... unless I'm really missing something huge). It does have a literature, and more than that, it has some extremely interesting and valuable original literature - but it is a small and young language.

4 persons have voted this message useful



Juаn
Senior Member
Colombia
Joined 5142 days ago
727 posts - 1830 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*

 
 Message 28 of 72
08 May 2010 at 2:01am | IP Logged 
Very well.

Now let me ask you three, could Japanese literature have existed without the Japanese, or Russian literature without the Russians?
1 person has voted this message useful



GREGORG4000
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5320 days ago
307 posts - 479 votes 
Speaks: English*, Finnish
Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French

 
 Message 29 of 72
08 May 2010 at 3:03am | IP Logged 
Juаn wrote:
Very well.

Now let me ask you three, could Japanese literature have existed without the Japanese, or Russian literature without the Russians?

No, unless someone invented Japanese or Russian as conlangs and then got thousands of people to write literature for them

Edited by GREGORG4000 on 08 May 2010 at 3:03am
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Juаn
Senior Member
Colombia
Joined 5142 days ago
727 posts - 1830 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*

 
 Message 30 of 72
08 May 2010 at 3:27am | IP Logged 
GREGORG4000 wrote:
No, unless someone invented Japanese or Russian as conlangs and then got thousands of people to write literature for them


So Russian literature owes it character and genius to the fact that Russian has three genders, perfective/imperfective verb pairs and six cases, and if the Portuguese or Thai were to learn the Russian language from grammar and vocabulary manuals they would produce a Tolstoy and Dostoevsky?
1 person has voted this message useful



GREGORG4000
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5320 days ago
307 posts - 479 votes 
Speaks: English*, Finnish
Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French

 
 Message 31 of 72
08 May 2010 at 3:44am | IP Logged 
Juаn wrote:
GREGORG4000 wrote:
No, unless someone invented Japanese or Russian as conlangs and then got thousands of people to write literature for them


So Russian literature owes it character and genius to the fact that Russian has three genders, perfective/imperfective verb pairs and six cases, and if the Portuguese or Thai were to learn the Russian language from grammar and vocabulary manuals they would produce a Tolstoy and Dostoevsky?

I'm not talking about how good the literature is, just that it exists...
1 person has voted this message useful



Juаn
Senior Member
Colombia
Joined 5142 days ago
727 posts - 1830 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*

 
 Message 32 of 72
08 May 2010 at 4:06am | IP Logged 
GREGORG4000 wrote:
I'm not talking about how good the literature is, just that it exists...


I'm not referring to quality per se either, but rather character.

You're thinking about literature in Russian while I'm talking about Russian literature.

And this goes to the heart of my critique of Esperanto. Having a means of communication does not equal having a literature. Peoples have literatures, languages do not.

Edited by Juаn on 08 May 2010 at 4:14am


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