Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Moses McCormick’s admirable achievement

 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery Post Reply
221 messages over 28 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 26 ... 27 28 Next >>
TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 3943 days ago

772 posts - 1473 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian
Studies: Georgian

 
 Message 201 of 221
22 April 2013 at 11:44pm | IP Logged 
I saw a video where he was "teaching" incorrect Japanese too, and there were a
couple of people in the comments asking him about it in a very pupil-to-teacher type
manner. I think this is rather misguided of him, but I'm sure it won't result in any
long-term damage to the abilities of his students since at some point, if they are
serious enough about their studies, they will no doubt find out that what they learned
from him is incorrect.

It's not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, unless he's taking money from his
students (is he? I have no idea).

Edited by TixhiiDon on 22 April 2013 at 11:44pm

4 persons have voted this message useful



Budz
Octoglot
Senior Member
Australia
languagepump.com
Joined 4852 days ago

118 posts - 171 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, Russian, Esperanto, Ukrainian, Mandarin, Cantonese, French
Studies: Italian, Spanish, Korean, Portuguese, Bulgarian, Persian, Hungarian, Kazakh, Swahili, Vietnamese, Polish

 
 Message 202 of 221
23 April 2013 at 1:17am | IP Logged 
Does Moses have an accent over the 'e' in hablés?

I'm astounded that he hasn't even worked out the correct stress of words. That's explained in just about any first lesson of Spanish. It's all rather bizarre.
3 persons have voted this message useful



casamata
Senior Member
Joined 2741 days ago

237 posts - 376 votes 
Studies: Portuguese

 
 Message 203 of 221
23 April 2013 at 1:22am | IP Logged 
TixhiiDon wrote:
I saw a video where he was "teaching" incorrect Japanese too, and there were a
couple of people in the comments asking him about it in a very pupil-to-teacher type
manner. I think this is rather misguided of him, but I'm sure it won't result in any
long-term damage to the abilities of his students since at some point, if they are
serious enough about their studies, they will no doubt find out that what they learned
from him is incorrect.

It's not a big deal in the whole scheme of things, unless he's taking money from his
students (is he? I have no idea).


The youtube videos are not paid of course, but he has a website where he sells his FLR method in several languages. So, I guess if you watch the video and don't realize that the information if incorrect, you could think that he is in fact a B1 (intermediate) level speaker in language X and then buy language X.

Me, I prefer going to classes or having language material from programs that have a long track record of success (like the FSI, but I'm not in the military) but other ways of learning are cheaper, to be sure.
3 persons have voted this message useful



casamata
Senior Member
Joined 2741 days ago

237 posts - 376 votes 
Studies: Portuguese

 
 Message 204 of 221
23 April 2013 at 1:34am | IP Logged 
Budz wrote:
Does Moses have an accent over the 'e' in hablés?

I'm astounded that he hasn't even worked out the correct stress of words. That's explained in just about any first lesson of Spanish. It's all rather bizarre.


Hmm, maybe he didn't go through the alphabet enough times? Is there a more efficient way than this?

1. Learn alphabet, every sound.
2. Learn basic greetings, good-byes, learn to tell time, the basics.
3. Learn how to conjugates basic verbs (to be, to eat, to sleep).
4. Learn more words, more grammar, accent reduction. (with a lot of speaking practice and listening, obviously)

Has anybody read a lot about studies that say that X or Y method is more efficient or effective for language learning? Myself, I have done the inefficient, overly grammar-based classes in a typical American middle school and high school. But also, as mentioned before, was part of a very rare university semi-immersion program heavy on grammar, speaking, listening, writing, communicating...everything. I imagine it is similar to the FSI program. I can't imagine that it is too efficient to just randomly start talking to people with a phrasebook because you have to find people willing to talk to you (which takes time) and you won't understand them at all. When Moses goes on his level-up activities, he does get to talk to natives, but the problem is that it seems kind of inefficient because it takes a lot of time to start up conversations. Plus, not everybody is willing to talk to you!

What do people think? To me, the best way is to do classes where you get the basics (or skype or italki tutoring sessions one on one) and once you have an intermediate level, you can do more native activities and just live like a native speaker.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Budz
Octoglot
Senior Member
Australia
languagepump.com
Joined 4852 days ago

118 posts - 171 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, Russian, Esperanto, Ukrainian, Mandarin, Cantonese, French
Studies: Italian, Spanish, Korean, Portuguese, Bulgarian, Persian, Hungarian, Kazakh, Swahili, Vietnamese, Polish

 
 Message 205 of 221
23 April 2013 at 1:43am | IP Logged 
Yeah, going to supermarkets is hugely inefficient. Especially when you ask them first in English 'hey, where are you guys from?'. And except for Cantonese and Mandarin in which Moses is already pretty fluent, they seem to reply back half the time in English.
3 persons have voted this message useful



morinkhuur
Triglot
Groupie
Germany
Joined 3156 days ago

79 posts - 157 votes 
Speaks: German*, Latin, English
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Maghribi)

 
 Message 206 of 221
23 April 2013 at 2:51am | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
a language is a
communicative vehicle, not an abstract concept learned in a classroom.


I would argue that a language can be both of those things and also more other things than just a communicative
vehicle.

tarvos wrote:
Teachers may (usually) teach you
the grammatically correct way to say something, and I'd use this as valuable feedback
were I learning how to write formal correspondence or get a job. But in casual speech,
it's enough to know how natives do it.


the way natives speak is always "grammatically correct", even if it is informal or contrary to what the grammar
books consider "the right way of talking". Actual grammar is never static and changes all the time but native
speakers always use "correct" grammar because it is them who determine in their interactions what is correct and
what isn't.

sorry for nitpicking and posting off-topic.

Edited by morinkhuur on 23 April 2013 at 2:52am

3 persons have voted this message useful



casamata
Senior Member
Joined 2741 days ago

237 posts - 376 votes 
Studies: Portuguese

 
 Message 207 of 221
23 April 2013 at 3:36am | IP Logged 
morinkhuur wrote:
tarvos wrote:
a language is a
communicative vehicle, not an abstract concept learned in a classroom.


I would argue that a language can be both of those things and also more other things than just a communicative
vehicle.

tarvos wrote:
Teachers may (usually) teach you
the grammatically correct way to say something, and I'd use this as valuable feedback
were I learning how to write formal correspondence or get a job. But in casual speech,
it's enough to know how natives do it.


the way natives speak is always "grammatically correct", even if it is informal or contrary to what the grammar
books consider "the right way of talking". Actual grammar is never static and changes all the time but native
speakers always use "correct" grammar because it is them who determine in their interactions what is correct and
what isn't.

sorry for nitpicking and posting off-topic.


Ideally, you would have a completely bilingual teacher, I think, to teach your target language. However, the next best thing is probably a native speaker with extensive academic (like a bachelors or masters in teaching X language) qualifications and much experience. I could see how a near-native second language teacher that really knows the language and the pitfalls that students face could, in many instances, be superior to the native speaker if the native didn't have as much knowledge of grammar.

But I don't get the hate toward classrooms. They are great if there is a native teaching to a small group of, say, six to ten students. The only issue is that speaking and communication should probably be emphasized more. People in many schools only learn how to conjugate basic verbs but never talk!

And yes, natives pretty much always speak "grammatically" correct. Like expressions such as "whatevs" or "hella" or "legend" aren't grammatically correct, but natives speak like this in America. Slang evolves and I would rather learn from somebody that has 20+ years of experience speaking as opposed to a second-language learner that has lived abroad for 1 or 2 years.
3 persons have voted this message useful



luke
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5684 days ago

3133 posts - 4350 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Esperanto, French

 
 Message 208 of 221
23 April 2013 at 11:11am | IP Logged 
casamata wrote:
And yes, natives pretty much always speak "grammatically" correct.


The "pretty much" qualifier is important. A native may say, "I aks you to come" and it is not grammatically correct and has a pronunciation error. (I asked you to come.)

Also, here is a common grammatical error in English. My stupidvisor wrote it in an email just last week. And lest anyone think I'm being pedantic, I overheard the mother of a very intelligent 5 year old correct him for this error.

John, Mary, and myself are coming. (wrong)

John, Mary and I are coming. (correct)

For anyone, the easy way to remember this, is to isolate the (I/me/myself) word from the list, and notice which is correct. (I am coming, not "myself am coming" or "me am coming"). The later "John, Mary, and me are coming" is more common and one could argue that it is a correct informal usage, but that's a bit of a stretch. The "John, Mary, and myself are coming" is still recognized as incorrect. This is especially true in that I've heard people use it in formal situations, such as business email, and I know my stupidvisor is just stupid and not being informal, and I've also heard it in The Apprentice Boardroom when contestants are doing their very best to defend themselves and sound intelligent and credible. That don't make it right. :)

Edited by luke on 23 April 2013 at 11:15am



1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 221 messages over 28 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.4690 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2020 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.