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Assimil Learning methods | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Roger Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6388 days ago 159 posts - 161 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Indonesian | Message 73 of 96 20 February 2007 at 7:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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To put it into plain English:
-I am now getting more from learning sections of grammar, and then using this knowledge to dive into text's. I like knowing The grammar perfectly. -I NEED to know the grammar very well, before it sinks in, which I wasn't getting with assimil. -The time I have been doing this, I have learned much more than I have with assimil, and I don't even spend half the time on it like I did assimil. Im thrilled assimil works wonerfully for many thousand's of people, but please accept the fact that it doesn't and won't work for everybody, as proved on this forum. And why should I create hard graft for myself with assimil, when im getting more from what im currently doing? With this way of doing things I can learn whatever texts I like, and am not stuck with boring assimil translations talking about a couple of ladies going on an outing to a cafe as is with assimil. By the way, isn't assimil about producing grammar through learning text's/translation's? The differance between assimil and myself is that I learn the grammar more indepth and a way that suits me. Im now a firm believer that there is no one suit for everybody. Edited by Roger on 20 February 2007 at 8:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6414 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 74 of 96 20 February 2007 at 8:39am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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For all the talk about different methods and learning styles, I think the difference is more apparent than real. When all is said and done, it seems that everyone recognizes the importance of exposure to meaningful language. Whether it's using translation and notes with Assimil, or a grammar and a dictionary with self-chosen texts, or giving responses to Pimsleur prompts, or even working with FSI dialogues and drills, language is being understood. When language is being understood, it is being learned. Edited by Linguamor on 20 February 2007 at 8:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6471 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 75 of 96 20 February 2007 at 9:19am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I agree the difference is more apparent than real. Whatever method we use, all is about read, listen, speak and write the target language. Nothing more, nothing less. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6888 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 76 of 96 20 February 2007 at 9:20am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Well that settles it then. :) Thanks for indulging my curiosity.
That was just what I have been trying to say, just because it works for well me doesn't mean it will work for you.
No, it is about internalizing a set of phrases, rather than learning or translating a dialog. It is really no different than any other course; it is just that the "tactic" is different.
Which suggests that you were a firm believer that there was one suit for everybody? I had a similar discovery myself. Why do we make such foolish assumptions? :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6888 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 77 of 96 20 February 2007 at 9:28am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I would disagree, if the differences were not real then why all the fuss? Just for the sake of clarity by “real” you mean massive amounts of compressible input, and by “apparent” what sources we use and how we use them. I use another analogy it is the difference between strategy and tactics. Strategy says the same while tactics can vary. I agree with you 100% but … That does not account for why some topics are heated, namely Assimil. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6739 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 78 of 96 20 February 2007 at 9:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
A person in this forum who used the "quick and dirty rules first" approach quite forcefully was Linas (who hasn't been around lately). As I recall, his way of learning was to read a 20 to 25 page summary of grammar, then load up on basic vocabulary by whatever means, and then dive into reading and later listening. I would not call this method "sequential", despite its being ostensibly "grammar-first", simply because it still leaves too much for the brain to deal with "on its own" later, from "input".
I try to have the cake and eat it, by choosing beginner/intermediate level reference grammars with enough nice examples, so one can just skim the rules and mostly read the examples. Even just to read these examples, one needs some amount of vocabulary, and an ideal study aid of this type will even teach you bits of new vocabulary and idioms along the way. (Some of Barron's materials do that quite well, some of the "Teach Yourself XYZ Grammar" seem to be very good that way, and Berlitz grammar guides are nice that way too, but at a more advanced level.) However, I am not saying that I start with such reference grammars - I am no polyglot and using a textbook that introduces grammar and vocabulary in parallel is far less taxing. My point about Assimil is merely that it is very vocabulary-heavy, relative to grammar, compared to many other methods - just think of all the posts asking which tenses are not covered by this or that Assimil "with Ease". Normally, by the time you've studied 2000+ vocabulary items, you would've covered all the main grammatical structures, both conversational and literary. The reason I care is because I want to get to the point where I can start plodding my way through unabridged "input" as soon as possible, and everything that slows me down on the way towards that goal quickly becomes a nuisance. I just don't see the need to spend the time to learn 2000+ words before opening my first novel - 900 would suffice, but I would like to have seen more grammatical structures before opening that novel than Assimil covers with the first 900 words. Iversen mentioned somewhere, as I recall, that he generally doesn't like textbooks and courses. I am not so "uncompromising", but I've met only two courses/textbooks (so far) that didn't feel like they were dragging it out unnecessarily: Michel Thomas' courses and Charles Duff's 50 year-old textbooks [added: on second thought, I am inclined to add "German Made Easy" to the list - it is very efficient]. Neither of those two is anywhere near perfect, but what they do, they do efficiently (from my standpoint and for my particular goals, to be precise). Assimil did not fall into that category; I do own four Assimil courses and expect to put them to good use as conversation courses or some other type of supplementary materials at a later point, but not as the first introductions to the respective languages. (This may or may not end up being true of "Le Hindi sans Peine", when I get to Hindi, but it is certainly the case with the major European languages I've looked at so far.) Edited by frenkeld on 21 February 2007 at 1:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Farley Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6888 days ago 681 posts - 739 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish | Message 79 of 96 20 February 2007 at 10:34am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Great point, I’m not sure I have an answer. Maybe there is a difference from structure first “big picture” and vocabulary first “big picture”? I have always thought that the structure first approach sounded reasonable, but it has never really worked for me.
So heavy that it blurs the details ..
… and so do I for the reasons mentioned above!
I guess this would be a good demonstration of Linguamor’s analogy of apparent versus real differences (subjective versus objective). There is not that much difference at face value between your study habits and mine, except perhaps subjective/emotional value placed on Assimil? Assimil allows me to master and grammar faster, but for you it is a distraction. I find that fascinating. John 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6739 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 80 of 96 20 February 2007 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Andy, So far I have not had a chance to study a language from scratch with Assimil. My big opportunity was with "German with Ease" back in November, but I blew it by going for an introduction to German from a more grammar-rich textbook - I will use the Assimil course later in some fashion, but by then I will likely already know most of the grammar covered in it. About a year from now, when I get to Hindi, I may try to use "Le Hindi sans Peine" as my main introduction to the language, but I do have a very nice introductory grammar by Usha Jain, and they say "Teach Yourself Hindi" is among the best in the whole series, so I am not holding my breath on that opportunity for Assimil either. :)
I must have some elements of global style in my approach in that I am not afraid of attacking a novel without a dictionary and trying to make sense of it. As far as how I study the basics, I am not sure what the style is. It may well be sequential, but "globalized" by impatience, so I end up skipping ahead and around different materials, just trying to get to the point when it is not wholly meaningless to open the first novel in the new language. The goals are basically two: to stop studying sooner rather than later and to not get bored during this phase. The two goals may well be in conflict at times. I wonder if one tends to be more "sequential" with one's first self-taught language and goes more and more "global" with subsequent languages. Edited by frenkeld on 21 February 2007 at 9:06am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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