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Importance of frequent vs rarer words? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6493 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 25 of 81 09 June 2015 at 9:45am | IP Logged | |||||
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Much of my reading has a scientific edge, and that means that I learn a fair amount of so called rare words simply by reading. So I do know that method and use it too, but that has not stopped me from also learning words through wordlists and other intensive techniques.
The crux of the matter is that you have to be choosy about the words you learn, both through such techniques and from genuine sources. If I put the unknown 'technical' words from my popular science articles into a wordlist this will mean that I have read about the topic and that I probably know what the chosen words refer to - and if not, then I skip the dubious words. 'Technical' and other special words from a dictionary may be included if I find them interesting AND know/understand exactly what their translations in the dictionary refer to - otherwise I skip them. There is no point in learning a word if you don't know what it means. And to my mind there is not a big difference between learning a word which has been explained to you in an article or one which occurs in a dictionary with a crystal clear translation, referring to something you know well in another language. And the context? Well, even if I have seen a word in some article or book I'll need more exposure to get a real grasp of its meaning. And knowing a word from a dictionary based wordlist or from one single previous occurrence are equally good when you see it later on - the important thing is that it now 'rings a bell'. Edited by Iversen on 09 June 2015 at 12:31pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5220 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 26 of 81 09 June 2015 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Rather than respond to a remarkably laughable piece of self-important hogwash about me that has nothing to do
with the thread, I'll just quote one of my favourite expressions: Who died and made you queen? Please, can we get back to the thread? Rereading the OP, I was intrigued by the following passage:
Here we have a person who demonstrates a pretty good command of English yet confesses to difficulty with some common words. How can this be? I wish the OP had provided some specific examples of this. Two ideas come to mind. Firstly, putting aside the grammar or function words that are at the top of a frequency list, the content words are frequent because they have many uses and different meanings The real problem here therefore is probably the uncommon use of common words. For example the Spanish verb ir "to go" is very rich. Just one verb form alone, the imperative vaya has 40 dictionary entries here: Vaya Secondly, these frequent words are also very rich in idioms and metaphors. These are often challenging because they use two planes of understanding. I was reminded of this when I read the very first sentence of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. What I had great difficulty understanding was "thank you very much" at the end of the sentence. Of course, I knew the words. I use them every day when people do something for me, but what are they doing here? Who does the "you" refer to? To me, the reader? Why thank me? I turned to the French version: Mr et Mrs Dursley, qui habitaient au 4, Privet Drive, avaient toujours affirmé avec la plus grande fierté qu'ils étaient parfaitement normaux, merci pour eux. The "merci pour eux" gave me a bit of an inkling of what was going on. I think there is a subtle hint of sarcasm or mockery by the author here that contrasts with how much the Dursleys consider themselves prim and proper. Very nice writing indeed. I'm not sure that my interpretation is right. Maybe other people have better ideas. But the point is that understanding some very common words can indeed be very challenging. Edited by s_allard on 09 June 2015 at 2:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4497 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 27 of 81 09 June 2015 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
I did! Isn't life wonderful?
Thank you, captain obvious. We were not aware of this piece of information for a long time, but Sherlock Allard has cleared it up for us. Come on, at least try to contribute to the discussion. Of course, I am aware that some very common words can indeed be very challenging, so I will state it here: yes, this is sarcasm. This is a thinly-veiled reproach at your address to buck up your act and stop making us all sick of the trolling. We know your viewpoint and you are frankly making these discussions impossible for us to partake in or even want to participate. Edited by tarvos on 09 June 2015 at 2:47pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4323 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 28 of 81 09 June 2015 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes. It's something like sarcasm addressed to an imaginary audience. http://www.italki.com/question/54216 "thanks very much" can be expanded to something like "thanks very much for asking". So "I feel fine, thanks very much (for asking)" could be sarcastic, especially no one has asked after your health. In this case it's meant in a sarcastic manner to emphasise how stupid questioning their normality is. Edited by patrickwilken on 09 June 2015 at 2:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5220 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 29 of 81 09 June 2015 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks @patrickwilken for the interesting link to the italki question and answer. I see I wasn't the only person
having difficulty understanding these common words. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5220 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 30 of 81 09 June 2015 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Let me try to contribute to the discussion instead of wasting brain power being nasty. I really like the following
passage in iversen's post:
I know that iversen is talking about technical words here, but I wonder if this can be applied to the problem of understanding frequent words, the theme of the thread. Probably not because the crux of the problem with common words is the many meanings whereas technical words tend to have limited meanings and often have direct translations into one's native language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6387 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 31 of 81 09 June 2015 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
Just in case: the long post had nothing to do with you and everything with the OP. Despite the subject line, it's pretty clear that the real question is "how can I improve my already good English?" Abstract discussions are tricky because everyone's situation is different. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5220 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 32 of 81 09 June 2015 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'll admit that I can be bombastic, repetitive and sarcastic at times. I know I get under some people's skin. I'm
also tenacious and I like to write. Hey, I'm a word geek. I'm also a good sport. I get accused of all sorts of things but I'm used to it. I can roll with the punches. When I'm wrong I'll admit it and apologize when necessary. But if there's one thing I abhor, it's nastiness. I don't understand why people go out of their way to be rude, insulting and sometimes downright dishonest when they could be contributing to the thread. I may disagree vehemently with certain positions here - and I'm not shy about saying so - but I don't make personal attacks . In fact, there are people who names I never mention and whose posts I usually ignore because I believe they're not worth my time. On the other hand, I will gladly name and engage with those posters whom I believe are making a significant contribution to the debate, despite any differences of opinion. I will continue until the moderator asks me to stop. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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