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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 89 of 151 07 April 2014 at 9:19pm | IP Logged |
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Week 14 Review (Mar 31 - April 6)
French: 2 hours Japanese: 2 hours. 30 minutes German: 7 hours, 30 minutes Korean: 8 hours, 30 minutes Week 14 Totals: 20 hours, 30 minutes Year To Date Total: 189 hours, 20 minutes Maybe I'll do a more thorough overview of my week later, but I have a pretty bad migraine right now so I'm going to go spend the rest of the day in bed. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 90 of 151 10 April 2014 at 7:16am | IP Logged |
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Way back at the start of the year, I dropped my minor languages for a few weeks before working them back in. Today, I decided to drop them again. When I sat down tonight to do some work on Japanese (Scriptorium), I thought to myself "I'd really like to be doing this when I'm focusing on this language." I'm not feeling satisfied with my study of Japanese. I love the language and it frustrates me sometimes that I don't get 30 hours in a day so that I can focus on 3 languages instead of 2. Sometimes when I'm working on Japanese, I'll think "I don't want to stop and work on Korean." and then after working on Korean, I think "If I didn't spend that time on Japanese, I could have been working on Korean for 2 hours instead of 1!" I think it's best if I just drop Japanese altogether until the time comes when I can devote a lot of time to it.
French is a bit different. I don't love it as much as I do Japanese and do feel fine just spending 2-3 hours a week on it, but I'm going to drop it anyway so that I can put more time into German. But I want to spend a few hours a week on learning some writing systems as well. It's hard to describe where my German is right now. I still have a long way to go, but a lot of times when listening to native German materials (TV shows, TV news, audiobooks), I get this sense that I'm so close to having a breakthrough, and part of the reason why I haven't had that breakthrough is because I split myself between too many languages. That's another reason I'm dropping down to just the two I'm focusing on. I want to get to that breakthrough! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 91 of 151 12 April 2014 at 7:46pm | IP Logged |
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Despite my ranting in the past over reviewing and trying to stop feeling like I need to absorb every ounce of content when I first see it, I still have been looking out for a way to do just that. After all, if I could find an enjoyable way to review previous content, solidifying it passively and moving into active use, I'd be crazy not to do it. The issue to date has been that every time I have tried a reviewing process, I burn out on it relatively quickly.
Over the past week, I've toyed around with both Duolingo and Memrise. I'm sure everyone knows what Duolingo is by now. The big mark against is that you can't feed it your own content, so you are limited by what they give you (so it doesn't help me when it comes to reviewing Assimil, Teach Yourself, FSI, etc. content.) Looking it over for German, they do seem to have a good amount of content. At my count, there are 72 categories with a various amount of levels each. I like that it takes multiple answers and will even give an "almost correct". I'm level 6 right now. It's a fun website to use when I don't feel like doing something intensive. It has helped fill a few holes in my vocab a bit (so far, I've learned a few more animals and adjectives). It has also helped with spelling and picking the right "der", "ein", etc. word. I really don't like is the computer voice. It pronounces some of the German words either badly or just plain incorrectly. It makes the diction drills very difficult sometimes. I do like that it doesn't force you into a rigid SRS like schedule. It uses "strength bars" for each category to let you know which areas haven't been studied for awhile, though. I like that "fuzzy logic" solution much more than a list of exactly when each card/word needs to be reviewed and that 'you have 121 cards to review and OMG if you don't do it you won't learn the language!!!!' feeling it gives you. What I don't like about Memrise is that it's a rigid flashcard program. There's only one right answer for the card (I think I've had a few "yellow" marks due to misspelling a word). If I type in a translation for a sentence that gives a different, yet still grammatically correct, word order, it gets marked wrong. However, I do like that it handles the transition (albeit quickly) from passively reviewing a card to active use (translating from English to German). I also like having just 1 card being used to create multiple drills. I was thinking of using it for Kanji. I started one of the kanji courses, but would like to enter my own. However, if I enter more than 1 definition for a kanji, if I only enter one definition instead of all 3 I give it, it will be marked wrong. And I don't want to do a "each kanji gets a unique keyword" system. If I could find a program that acts like Memrise, where it takes 1 card you enter and creates several drills in a systematic order from passive recognition to active use, but also allows flexibility in its scoring the way Anki does, that would be getting to something I could use. I probably could do something like that with Anki or LWT if I put in some leg work. Something I'll keep thinking about. In the meantime, I'm going to keep using Memrise and Duolingo to see how they go. Edited by sabotai on 12 April 2014 at 7:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 92 of 151 13 April 2014 at 9:56pm | IP Logged |
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So I think I'm going to give Anki one more shot (LOL).
Did some reps with Duolingo and Memrise today. I turned my speakers off in the Duolingo options, so no more horribly pronounced diction drills. Now it's just fairly straight forward translation exercises. Much better, but I could still go without the multiple choice questions. In Memrise, I've found it will take multiple answers as long as the course creator thought of it. The person who made the Kanji course I'm using did, so I'll keep using it. I had started putting in some German and Korean content for Memrise, but I'm probably going to stop that and try Anki one more time. Mainly because I don't really like doing the full sentence translations. I prefer doing cloze deletion, transformation, partial translation ("(How is) die Tasse?", "Wie ist (the cup)", "Wie ist (d..) Tasse?", etc.). Plus, I'm still going to use Duolingo to help fill my vocab gaps, and that uses full sentence translations, so no real point in using two that do. One of the big reasons I'm trying Anki again is because I found out how to add text boxes to cards in order to type in answers. Typing in answers for Duolingo and Memrise broke up the monotony of doing the exercises (at least, so far). In Anki, it was always "see card, score it, see card, score it, see card, score it, see card, score it, see card, score it, ad nauseum". I want to test if typing in answers for Anki cards will break up that trance like state I get into when doing reps. Also, I bought a new netbook not that long ago. Maybe doing the reps while sitting on my bed with a netbook will make it more tolerable than sitting at a desk. Typing in answers for Anki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tYObQ3ocrw 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 93 of 151 14 April 2014 at 2:05am | IP Logged |
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Week 15 Review (Apr 7 - 13)
German: 9 hours, 30 minutes Korean: 3 hours, 45 minutes French: 45 minutes (before deciding to drop it) Japanese: 1 hour, 30 minutes (mostly Kanji) Week 15 total: 15 hours, 30 minutes Year to Date: 204 hours, 50 minutes Last week 18 pages of Scriptorium for Korean, this week another 18 pages. 72 done, 48 to go (17 days = 2.8 per day). The scriptorium was most of what I did this week for Korean. I knew it would take a lot of time, but it's really disrupted my routine. Oh well, only 2 weeks and change before I'm done with it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 94 of 151 19 April 2014 at 7:07pm | IP Logged |
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I've been experimenting with different types of cards in Anki.
For simple, straight forward sentences, I've been making a few full sentence translations. For example Ich bin Franzose::I am French(m) But mostly, I break the sentences up into separate parts Er {{c2::geht::gehen}} {{c1::nach}} Hause. This card tests my conjugation of "gehen" on one card, and tests my use the right correct preposition on another Er [gehen] nach Hause. Er geht [...] Hause. Ich {{c1::gehe::gehen}} {{c2::ins::in d..}} Büro. Ich [gehen] ins Büro. Ich gehe [in d..] Büro. As well as having cards that simply test der/die/das words, the plurals of nouns and using the right declension of ein words as well as adjectives. Das ist {{c1::das::d..}} Kind. Wo ist {{c1::das::d..}} Café? Wo ist {{c1::meine::mein}} Fahrkarte? Wir {{c1::sehen einen neuen::sehen ein neu}} Film. Frau Schneider ist {{c1::eine::ein}} Tante. I also have a few asking for a change in the sentence. For example, this card asks for the negative NEG: Die Streichhölzer sind sehr gut. {{c1::Die Streichhölzer sind nicht sehr gut}}. I've also toyed with putting multiple tests on a card, as well as having some that use translation and others that don't. {{c1::Kommen::Kommen}} Sie {{c1::mit mir zur::with me to the}} Bushaltestelle? Ja, ich {{c1::komme::kommen}} {{c1::mit Ihnen zur::with YOU to the}} Bushaltestelle. ("YOU" = formal you, "you" = informal you) [Kommen] Sie [with me to the] Bushaltestelle? Ja, ich [kommen] [with YOU to the] Bushaltestelle. {{c1::Fährst::Fahren}} du mit Thomas {{c1::in die::in d..}} Stadt? Ja, ich {{c1::fahre::fahren}} {{c1::mit ihm::mit ...}} {{c1::in die::in d..}} Stadt. [Fahren] du mit Thomas [in d..] Stadt? Ja, ich [fahren] [mit ...] [in d..] Stadt. And here's an example of Korean from Sogang 1A 아저씨, {{c1::공책::notebook}} 있어요? 네, 있어요. {{c1::공책::notebook}} {{c2::다섯 권::5 ctr}} {{c3::주세요::주다 + (으)세요}}. 여기 있어요. 감사합니다. One card tests my vocab, another for numbers and counters and a third for the 주다 + (으)세요 conjugation. (The problem with the translations is that there's more than one word for notebook in Korean, but I'll deal with that if and when it becomes a problem.) Also, with scoring the cards, I'm testing my overall recognition as well. Even if I get the answer in the braces correct, if there's anything on the card that I don't understand passively, I fail it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3881 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 95 of 151 19 April 2014 at 7:20pm | IP Logged |
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I am not sure that such extensive Anki decks as such basic levels are worth it.
Adjective declinations, and regular verb changes are straightforward and can be learnt from just one set of sentences for each case. How about translating whole sentences? I am going to home. I gehe nach Hause. By cutting down the effort per card, you should be able to make Anki sentences. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| sabotai Senior Member United States Joined 5681 days ago 391 posts - 489 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese, Korean, French | Message 96 of 151 19 April 2014 at 9:54pm | IP Logged |
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Why not whole sentences? I'm doing the active wave for Assimil and doing the FSI drills, which includes translation drills, and using Duolingo which uses full sentence translations. I do have some partial and full translation cards, but not many. I've also used lang-8 and HaruKorean for making my own sentences. For translations, I think that's enough.
Doing SRS with purely passive cards ("The Sentence Method") gets too boring for me. Part of doing it this way, making me rebuild the sentence, is to keep it interesting. So for SRS, I'm still sticking with mostly "Input Hypothesis" and "The Sentence Method", just giving it a little flair. Edited by sabotai on 19 April 2014 at 10:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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