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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5192 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 9 of 82 06 September 2012 at 5:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You're right. Unfortunately, not all words in [wa] become [we]. For instance, je bois and je dois can be j'boé and j'doé, but quoi remains [kwa], same with roi, joie, doigt, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Wulfgar Senior Member United States Joined 4482 days ago 404 posts - 791 votes Speaks: English* | Message 10 of 82 06 September 2012 at 7:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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This might be off topic, but here goes. A Canadian friend of mine told me Canadian French is "standard" French, in
the same way that American English is "standard" English. I think he meant most of what is heard around the world is Canadian, rather than French, French. Do you agree? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5192 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 11 of 82 06 September 2012 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
No. Because France colonised most of the French-speaking world, French is closer to France French almost everywhere. What he might have meant is that Québec French has retained some of the features and vocabulary of older French -- and it is true that at some point in time, centuries ago, Québec French was considered to be a purer form of French because it was closer to the king's French, but this is no longer the case. Edited by Arekkusu on 06 September 2012 at 4:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4518 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 12 of 82 06 September 2012 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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What he probably means actually is that Québécois and American English strove to preserve
more of the original sound of the English/French settlers in North America, and are thus closer to French/English spoken centuries ago. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5343 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 82 06 September 2012 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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This question is very specific to Montreal.
What's the etiquette for code switching between French and English? Let's say I'm in a bakery, holding a book in French, and an employee asks me (in French) what I think about the author. The employee is clearly bilingual, because I've just seen him switch language several times when speaking to co-workers, and I can't guess which is his dominant language, if any. Oh, and there's two or three customers waiting behind me. Do I hold up the line for an extra 45 seconds while I try to find the necessary vocabulary in French,[1] or do I temporarily switch to English so everyone gets their pain au chocolat as quickly as possible? [1] Bernard Weber est facile à lire, mais sa science-fiction est un peu trop banal. Il utilise des très vielles idées de l'âge d'or de la science-fiction, et il les utilise sans complexité. On pouvait trouver des meilleurs versions de chaque idée il y a cinquante ans, avec les caractères plus compliqués et plus intéressants. Mais il suffira, particulièrement en ma deuxième langue. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5192 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 14 of 82 06 September 2012 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Wow. Very specific question... without a very specific answer. These kinds of situations can sometimes create linguistic tensions and to be honest, it's the only thing I didn't like about Montréal and that started weighing on me over time. I used to live in Montréal, but over a decade ago. I don't this has changed much. And by the way, code-switching is when you use two languages at the same time, mixing them up in the same sentence or from sentence to sentence. This question is more about switching languages, I guess. I think the answer depends on where you were, what type of business it was and the person's strongest language (if it wasn't another), though this last factor might not be obvious to a foreigner. If you were downtown and the other person seemed to be a perfect bilingual, then switching is no big deal, except that you were discussing a French book, so if you switched to English you'd've quickly ended that discussion. If you were further East, or if you were downtown in a business where most customers spoke French, then I think your efforts would have been appreciated and the few extra seconds would have been fine. To be clear, a French speaker would have appreciated your extra efforts, an English-speaker (or allophone with no specific attachment to French) might find it annoying. I'm guessing the person's next reply would let you know which it was, depending on whether they continue in French or switch to English. The most awkward combinations are two French speakers using English or an English speaker imposing French on another English speaker. My wife, an anglophone, used to anger English-speaking customers at the Provigo on Ste-Catherine where she used to work because she'd address them in French despite her own accent and insist on replying in French. That would get on people's nerves. As a native speaker of French, switching to English with another native speaker of French is also a big no-no. It just gets really awkward -- kind of mix between "my language no longer matters to me and I look down on those who disagree" and some sort of competition on who speaks better English. This is very different in the Prairies where I now live, where francophones will switch to English when other English speakers are around, so as not to offend them. In Montréal, or in Québec as a whole, I think most francophones would find this a bit insulting or irritating. I don't know if this has helped at all... Edited by Arekkusu on 06 September 2012 at 4:07pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5343 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 82 06 September 2012 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Interesting. All my linguistic horror stories involve trying to use A2+ French in Quebec City. About 95% of the time, my efforts were warmly appreciated. The remaining 5% of the time, certain francophones would act insulted and switch to English. (It's the attitude that bothered me, not the English. If somebody has a strong language preference, I'm always happy to accommodate them. I certainly never meant to insult a francophone by speaking slightly dodgy French.) In contrast, I've never had any trouble in Montreal. Maybe I've just been lucky, but whatever my level of French, nobody has ever been rude to me or acted insulted about language choice. Sure, we've occasionally done an awkward little dance, but it was always approached with good will, or at least the desire to communicate efficiently.
Well, I wouldn't switch to English any longer than necessary. :-) Maybe a couple of sentences at most, before defaulting back to French. Ideally, I want to give the other person the choice of French, English or (if it's really the best option) some mix of the two.
I was in a surprisingly bilingual neighborhood of Laval, and the working language of the bakery employees was an easy-going mix of French and English. When they were speaking with each other, they switched every sentence or two. That's why I was so puzzled by the etiquette of the situation. I mean, I'm sure they would have responded graciously to either French or English. But I'd like to reciprocate by being equally polite, which is why I'm so curious about the prevailing customs. In some areas around Montreal, I do have trouble figuring out whether people are francophones or anglophones. They often sound native in both languages, with a soft Quebec accent in French and a comfortable, flawless command of English. If we speak long enough, however, their vocabulary will usually give them away.
Ouch, yeah, that would be rather rude. I've heard of a third way to be awkward: When a retail employee greets you with a friendly "Bonjour hi!" (implicitly offering to use either French or English), go right ahead and respond with "Bonjour hi!", and force them to guess which language you'd prefer. Thank you very much for providing a francophone's perspective on language choice in Montreal! This is really useful to me, because I hope to respond to the residents of Montreal with the same courtesy as they've always shown me. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5594 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 16 of 82 06 September 2012 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Sorry if this is off-topic but I do kind of have a question. French is pretty high up on
my "to do" list and I'm a fan of the L-R method, are there any free, legal audiobooks in Canadian French (I know there are lots in Parisian French)? Cheers. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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