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World Languages? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Fortwenster Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4797 days ago 24 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchC1 Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 49 of 58 02 January 2012 at 2:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I think diglossia DOES affect the Arabi world as a whole, just to lesser degree in some areas than others. I think the reason why Arabic is lumped as one language has more to do with political nd cultural reasons than pure linguistic reasons. Mid eastern dialects definitely can be considered one language, despit differences, but between Moroccan and Iraqi, it wouldn't be a shocker if they were treated as separate, though related, languages. I recommend you read "Questions Regarding Arabic" thread. Humdereel and Xaled gave great snwers regarding the language there. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5227 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 50 of 58 02 January 2012 at 2:27am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Whoops, my bad. Fixed. :x
Alas, I wouldn't consider myself to be actively studying it—it's just a small peripheral interest of mine. But thanks anyway. :)
Ok, so you were referring to demography and geography—fair enough. But to that point, I could counter with the issues of economic development and standards of living. Obviously, the Hispanosphere has its own economic problems—be it youth unemployment in Spain or consistently disappointing growth in Mexico—and living standards setbacks—be it high homicide rates across Latin America or impending "austerity measures" in Spain—but the situation is still much better and more stable than the current situation of the Arab world at the moment. Egypt is on the brink of running out of both money and food, and much of the rest of the region fares even worse (e.g., Syria), with only the authoritarian Kingdom of Saudi Arabia seeming particularly stable at the moment, aside from tiny oil-rich pseudo-countries like Qatar (total population: 55% non-Arab manual labor) and small, resource-poor countries like Jordan and Lebanon. But I digress. What is or isn't a "world language" is a matter of how one defines the term, and that's purely subjective, so reaching a consensus on this matter isn't going to happen. :) Edited by nway on 02 January 2012 at 2:30am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Mad Max Tetraglot Groupie Spain Joined 4863 days ago 79 posts - 146 votes Speaks: Spanish*, French, English, Russian Studies: Arabic (classical) | Message 51 of 58 02 January 2012 at 11:34am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
No. It is NOT true. I repeat it. When I post I read it before all the sources. Portuguese in Africa is spoken by some 20 million people according to Wikipedia, because not everybody speak it in Angola or Mozambique. So, Portuguese doesn't meet the requirement of 50 million speakers. It is true that in the near future Portuguese will meet this requirement, but not nowadays. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Africa On the other hand, Spanish in Europe is spoken by a 15% of Europeans (only European Union) according to the Eurobarometer 2006. So, some 75 million people speak it as mother tongue or second language. Another interesting point is the diglossia in the Arabic World. I speak Modern Standard Arabic and I DON'T understand Moroccan Arabic. It is almost a different language. A person from Iraq and another from Morocco speak different languages. If they don't study MSA (and a lot of people in Morocco or Algeria speak it very bad), they need English or French to understand each other. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5873 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 52 of 58 02 January 2012 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Actually, these are countries I know, and it works like this: not only there are a few million people that only speak Portuguese (maybe the 20 million you refer to), but the others also have to speak it, whenever they have to have things done. Oh, and that's also the language taught at school. Mutatis mutandis, it's a bit like... er... your country. In some regions, as you well know, you can get by on your Catalan, Basque, or Galician, but it would be unthinkable not to know Castilian, . Please note that I'm not writing this in order to make some point. To me, this 50 million limit is as valid as considering America to be two separate continents. Maybe I'm already quite old, but back when I studied, America was considered to be just one continent. It's all a convention. And furthermore, we are always learning: a while ago, I read that Portuguese was the #1 language in the Southern Hemisphere. It turned out to be (arithmetically) true. Of no consequence, but true. Edited by Luso on 02 January 2012 at 5:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Kartof Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4878 days ago 391 posts - 550 votes Speaks: English*, Bulgarian*, Spanish Studies: Danish | Message 53 of 58 02 January 2012 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Well, if the population of Spain is 46 million, assuming several more million expatriates of Spanish or Hispanic
origin in Europe, Spanish barely meets the requirement. I don't think foreign language speakers should be included in this number since most do not speak it to fluency, and those who do live in Spain. I disagree with the whole concept of coming up with an arbitrary number of speakers on an arbitrary number of arbitrarily defined continents to define a concept as arbitrary as a "world language". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4561 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 54 of 58 02 January 2012 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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And in Spain, many people speak it as the 2nd language: Galicians, Basques, Valencians, Balearics and Catalans. There are fewer than 40 million people in Spain who have Spanish as their 1st language. Edited by Camundonguinho on 02 January 2012 at 4:38pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Mad Max Tetraglot Groupie Spain Joined 4863 days ago 79 posts - 146 votes Speaks: Spanish*, French, English, Russian Studies: Arabic (classical) | Message 55 of 58 02 January 2012 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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"Actually, these are countries I know, and it works like this: not only there are a few
million people that only speak Portuguese (maybe the 20 million you refer to), but the others also have to speak it, whenever they have to have things done. Oh, and that's also the language taught at school." Well, it can be true. Anyway, the population of Angola, Mozambique, Sao Tome, Guinea Bissau and Cape Verde, all together, is 37 million and not 50. "I disagree with the whole concept of coming up with an arbitrary number of speakers on an arbitrary number of arbitrarily defined continents to define a concept as arbitrary as a "world language"." Yes. It is arbitrary, of course. "And in Spain, many people speak it as the 2nd language: Galicians, Basques, Valencians, Balearics and Catalans. There are fewer than 40 million people in Spain who have Spanish as their 1st language." Well, the number of Spanish speakers in Spain as mother tongue is 41.96 and everybody speak it as mother tongue or second language. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_espa%C3%B1ol 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5873 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 56 of 58 03 January 2012 at 12:58am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
According to Wikipedia (which you quote a few times), if you add just Angola and Mozambique (2009 and 2007 data respectively, and we know the population growth trend in such countries), you arrive to 38,5 millions. This in pt.wikipedia; should you check en.wikipedia, you get a bit more: just over 40 millions for these two countries. Edited by Luso on 03 January 2012 at 1:12am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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