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World Languages? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4561 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 9 of 58 29 December 2011 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't really know Hindustani (an obsolete name for Hindi and Urdu) can be considered a world language. Only the northernmost third of India speaks Hindi, and speakers of Dravidian languages and Bengali opposed the inclusion of Hindi in the Indian constitution as the national language. So, Hindi is not a national language of India, India has no national language. It has only two official languages: Hindi and English.
On the other hand, in Pakistan Urdu is virtually spoken by all Pakistanis, so we may say Urdu is the national language of Pakistan. Edited by Camundonguinho on 29 December 2011 at 5:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SmilingStraw Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4722 days ago 35 posts - 37 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 10 of 58 29 December 2011 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Im not really sure if Arabic can be considered a world language, thouhg it is certainly importatn.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5227 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 11 of 58 29 December 2011 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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As always, it's a matter of how you define the terms.
If you precisely define "world languages", then considering what *is* or *isn't* a world language isn't a subjective matter. It's all semantics. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. Personally, I think using tiny or non-influential regions like Macau as an example of trans-continental world language status is just ridiculous. Dutch and its mutually intelligible offshoots are spoken in four continents, but to call Dutch a "world language" in this day and age is just ludicrous. Hopefully Lusophones and Francophones will catch my drift, such that I needn't be more explicit. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4677 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 12 of 58 29 December 2011 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's interesting to see which additional languages people want to add to the list. But if the list is going to mean anything at all then there has to be a cutoff point somewhere. Personally, I'd include English and Spanish and leave the list at that. French has been fading for decades, and Portuguese is a distant third to English and Spanish, so I would make the requirements a little tighter and exclude it.
Just my opinion, of course. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4790 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 13 of 58 29 December 2011 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | ||
Whether or not Arabic can be considered a world language depends on how strictly a language has to meet the criteria listed -- if a language has to meet each of the factors listed in the Wikipedia article or simply most of them. Let's see how Arabic meets up to each of those points: A large number of speakers Arabic most definitely fits this requirement. The highest estimates list around 280 million speakers, the lowest around 200 million speakers. Some would say, "Well, the dialects are quite different, so how many do you really get to speak to?" Considering that many of the Middle Eastern dialects are fairly intelligible (depending on which ones, some are highly or decently intelligible, due to a variety of factors), the number of speakers is still well over 100 million. A substantial fraction of non-native speakers (function as lingua franca) This is harder to answer. Outside of the Arab World, I don't think there is a substantial number of non-native speakers, at least compared to languages such as English and French. According to some estimates, the number of people who use Arabic as a second language is around 20 million, some estimates would put that number higher. Historically, it was certainly a lingua franca when the language spread over a vast geographic area. Official status in several countries Arabic meets this requirement. It's the official language of about 25 countries, though in some of these countries it's a minority language. Frankly, I prefer the term "geographic presence" over number of countries. Mandarin, for example, is mostly restricted to one country (with importance in some other countries), but it covers a good geographic area. If China were to split into 100 countries, would it make it more or less important? Perhaps politically speaking. A linguistic community not defined strictly along ethnic lines (multiethnic, pluricentric language) Arabic definitely meets this as well. While people from Morocco to Iraq are usually lumped into the term "Arab" due to a common language, the cultural groups within this range are very diverse in several aspects -- religiously, culturally, etc. While most Arabs adhere to Islam, there's also a significant Arab Christian (and Jew) minority. One or more standard registers which are widely taught as a foreign language MSA is becoming increasingly common in the U.S. and European countries, though it has been less common than other languages such as Spanish, French, etc. In non-Arab Muslim countries, Arabic is quite important religiously speaking and some of these Muslims go on to devote to serious study of the Arabic language. Association with linguistic prestige Arabic is not considered a language of "prestige" in many Western countries, though it is different in the Muslim world. Arabic is considered a sacred language with almost unsurpassed beauty due to its importance as the liturgical language of Islam. Just listening to Arabic "intoxicates" non-Arab Muslims due to that importance. Arabic more or less meets this requirement. Use in international trade relations/Use in international organizations International organizations such as the United Nations, Arab League, and African Union mention Arabic as important, though I believe it isn't necessarily used as working language in the U.N. Overall, though Arabic is important in several international situations, though perhaps not at the level of English and French. Use in the academic community In the Arab World, Arabic is used for higher academics in several countries, though some universities prefer usage of English or French. In Saudi Arabia, Arabic is very important academically, and in general Arabic was very important in the sciences and other academic fields (historically). Significant body of literature Arabic, with no doubt, meets this requirement. It encompasses a treasure trove of literary works, both classical and modern, and those who know modern Arabic are more than capable of reading the works of centuries ago. Indeed, it as a highlight of the Arabic language. There's no doubt that Arabic is important, and it meets most of these requirements, though it seems like not every single one of them. Again, it depends on how strict the requirements are. Honestly, whether or not it is a world language or just a "supra-regional" doesn't detract or attract me or other students from the language, and it shouldn't. EDIT: fixed a weird sentence Edited by Humdereel on 29 December 2011 at 6:56pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 4942 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 14 of 58 29 December 2011 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | ||
True, it's a very small country (region). My response was that it was still being used as a lingua franca in that particular part of Asia, and is, in fact, one of two official languages there, from my understanding. The contracts I translated weren't from 100 years ago - they were from last year. Will it be a dominant language there in the future? Probably not. But Portuguese at one time spread far and wide, just as the other three first-listed languages did, and the effects are still recognized at an official level. R. == Edited by hrhenry on 29 December 2011 at 7:08pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4990 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 15 of 58 29 December 2011 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | ||
Actually according to Wikipedia the number of speakers is bigger. 'If Arabic is considered a single language, it counts more than 300 million first language speakers (according to some estimates, as high as 340 million[1])'. Also UN uses it as a official language I think I would add Indonesian to the list. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Fortwenster Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4797 days ago 24 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchC1 Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 16 of 58 29 December 2011 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think Swahili, Persian, and Indonesian should be considered world languages.
Yes, they're very important in several respects, but theyre not quite "global" per say. Swahili is importnt lingua franca in Africa, and has a great number of speakers, but outside of Africa it's not used signififcantly, correct? Persian is strategically important, and has a powerful history, but is it global? 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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