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Learning japanese

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32 messages over 4 pages: 13 4  Next >>
sammiad
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3449 days ago

26 posts - 28 votes
Studies: English*, Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 9 of 32
21 December 2009 at 4:36pm | IP Logged 
Its probably more accurate to say its an intepretation of iverson's method, becuase i'm not too sure on the specifics of it.
The core of what i understood is using columns alternate from target language to base language and back again, but only write in after you can remember the batch of words (5-7). becuase it tests you to recollect, and gives you practise going forward and backwards. I wasn't sure when to try to remember the words, or if i could have started in target or base language.(i was writting in katana, as it might be more writting help but i didnt know wether it would be better in roman script)

I'd also be interested in hearing other peoples methods for learning, because i think my short term visual memory is pretty good but trying to recall in target language stumps me.
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sammiad
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3449 days ago

26 posts - 28 votes
Studies: English*, Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 10 of 32
30 December 2009 at 9:25pm | IP Logged 
i guess, like everyone else, that learning/reading dropped off a little over the christmas period.
But im meaning to get back to it, with a little more structure and progress so that everythign fits nicely together.
I still think my biggest issue is im not sure how i learn, so i might do too little , or read a chapter of genki 1 and understand some of it but fail at the questions.

i got a couple of japanese books for christmas, basic japanese sentance patterns and crazy for kanji are two that im currently reading. the kanji one has more information than just the kanji characters like RTK so im hoping it will fill in and help me while im remembering them with RTK. The basic sentance patterns book is quite good becuase so far i recognise the structures, so i feel like ive learnt something.

I've been meaning to listen to more pimsleur (but i havnt put it on my ipod), nor have i returned to rosetta stone , or anki for kanji.

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TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 3454 days ago

772 posts - 1473 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian
Studies: Georgian

 
 Message 11 of 32
30 December 2009 at 11:07pm | IP Logged 
[QUOTE=sammiad] (i stopped reading after te-form) [QUOTE=sammiad]

I remember being completely baffled by the -te form when I was first taught it. Try not to translate it into any specific English words and phrases and simply understand that it is used either to link two verbs or as a gentle command.

As you say you know hiragana and around 600 kanji, I think you should start looking at authentic Japanese texts. You can start with children's books, but also magazines (R25 is a good one, and interesting too). Use Eijiro (http://www.alc.co.jp/) to look up words you don't know. It's better than the biggest bilingual dictionary out there in my opinion.

I think for Japanese in particular, grammar explanations often confuse rather than enlighten. The best way to understand how this language is structured and used is to read real texts from real publications as soon as you are able.

Good luck!

Edited by TixhiiDon on 30 December 2009 at 11:11pm

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sammiad
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3449 days ago

26 posts - 28 votes
Studies: English*, Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 12 of 32
07 January 2010 at 4:43pm | IP Logged 
Thanks for the help/suggestion.
Its great to know that i should be trying something else.http://r25.yahoo.co.jp/ is that the site your where talking about?
I have a program called rikaichan, that gives popups over kanji etc, but i guess first couple of times around ill try without and see how far i get.
I think i got a copy of shonen jump over christmas so i might try that also.


I'm still working through smart fm 2001 kanji odyssey, which is the only thing i do with any regularity.
I've still got backed up anki (150 ish).

Does anyone else get the feeling that you are just remembering loads of pieces (if that), and not learning anything

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wildweathel
Newbie
United States
Joined 3553 days ago

32 posts - 71 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Esperanto, Japanese

 
 Message 13 of 32
07 January 2010 at 7:38pm | IP Logged 
Yes. Sometimes I feel like that. So, I watch an episode of Digimon and congratulate myself for understanding as much as I do. There are two reasons for enjoying native media:

- first it really does help you put the pieces together.
- second and as important, it's a huge source of motivation.

(Suggestion for study: you might enjoy Kanji Damage. If I were starting over, I'd power through the all the meanings, writing, and 音 in 2 or 3 months. I used RtK, but Kanji Damage is free and looks like more fun.)

I took a look at r25.yahoo.co.jp. It says that it's the online version of R25, a free magazine for male business men older than 25 (something along the lines of "restricted 25+, not 18+...for men only, with apologies to the women..."). Not my cup of tea, but if you like it you should read it or something like it.

(Personally, I like kids.yahoo.co.jp. There's no shame in enjoying kid's media (if and only if you like it)--you're basically still a kid in a language you're learning anyway.)
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TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 3454 days ago

772 posts - 1473 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian
Studies: Georgian

 
 Message 14 of 32
07 January 2010 at 11:22pm | IP Logged 
sammiad wrote:
http://r25.yahoo.co.jp/

Yes, that's the site. It's a free magazine distributed in train stations, and it's aimed at young guys who have just left university and are starting out in the world of work. Japanese people are basically considered to be children until they leave university, so really the whole "theme" of the magazine is taking the first steps into adult society and all the fears and worries that accompany those steps. There is also a mirror version for women, but I'm not sure of the name of it.

I like it because it has lots of short articles about news, business, finance, sport, fashion, trends, and so on. There are also interviews with popular celebrities and lots of articles which will give you a real insight into Japanese society and the way Japanese people actually live their lives. The articles are never particularly indepth, so they should be quite easy to read. They are also sometimes quite funny and self-effacing in a typically Japanese way.

Edited by TixhiiDon on 07 January 2010 at 11:24pm

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sammiad
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3449 days ago

26 posts - 28 votes
Studies: English*, Spanish, Japanese

 
 Message 15 of 32
09 January 2010 at 1:29pm | IP Logged 
thanks for them links and explainations, because i think its easier if things have meaning or context with them.
I have a lot of things/links/books to get through, in particular a link (on a research paper about language learning with example and differences in styles) which because its in my native language its easy to understand and i actually feel like im learning something that could help my japanese learning. the first two chapters have been on audio styles , but i think i tag sounds to images but its great seeing differences in styles.
i think i like learning about learning but im not sure how i learn.

i might work through a news story or a piece of r25 (i looked at the kids one but if i think of English kids websites they confuse me anyway so i think ill leave them for a bit) . using rikaichan it says its something about a trip to a hot spring in winter.
ill have to get a system with unknown words/kanji writing the sentance splitting it into bits translation......

did you do all of the first RTK book or 2 and three (because you said about the sounds also???) because i think from what others on here blitzed RTK and then moved on to the rest of the language.

well i should get back to kanji myself, 2 more pages of RTK is a decent ammount.


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wildweathel
Newbie
United States
Joined 3553 days ago

32 posts - 71 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Esperanto, Japanese

 
 Message 16 of 32
10 January 2010 at 5:45am | IP Logged 
I own all three volumes of RtK, but I've only really studied the first. I'm not thrilled about RtK2's methods (it quickly degenerates into brute-forcing contrived words to learn "all the 音読み"), so I don't recommend it.

Studying readings is a balancing act between cost-of-learning and benefit. Ultimately, you'll have to look up most of the words you know, so ultimately you don't have to start with readings. Their advantage is in making text more friendly the first time you see it and reducing how much you have to learn at once.

The greatest benefit will come from decently-common readings that are used in multiple words. Since irregularities concentrate in the most common words--which you have to learn anyway--paradoxically, the best readings to study may not be the most common.

KD picks the most useful 音読み (1 or 2 and sometimes 0) for each character and works it into the mnemonic. I recommend it only because it's a "while your at it you might as well" sort of thing. You don't absolutely need readings outside of the context of words or sentences, but if they're easy to pick up, go for it.

(EDIT: homophone bug)

Edited by wildweathel on 11 January 2010 at 8:17pm



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