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Team Sleipnir TAC 2015 - Team Thread | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4429 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 41 of 170 12 January 2015 at 10:37am | IP Logged | |||||
Hi Expug. I know the expression "å bile inn" but I think it is hardly ever used nowadays. Personally I would never say that, but rather "kjøre inn" as you suggest or "jeg tar bilen inn hver dag", if you want to express clearly that you go by car and not another means of transport. So better to avoid "bile" as a verb. As for consonants, this is what the Norwegian Wikipedia says about the length:
So basically, it does not make any difference whether you try to pronounce a double consonant longer. A double consonant in Norwegian is used to indicate that the preceding vowel is short, and nothing else. A good explanation of the rules can be found at ordnett.no 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4311 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 42 of 170 12 January 2015 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I view the length of consonants in Norwegian partly as a consequence of prosody, which also
means that it might depend on the region (I think the length difference is most prominent in Østlandet). This means trying to place the word stress on the consonant rather on the vowel (not sure if that even can be done, but I use it as a mental image). But that makes sense only if the word is supposed to be stressed, functional words often aren't, except when they are stressed consciously (eg. det ER ikke rigtig vs. det er IKKE rigtig, the k in the latter ikke being longer than in the former). Trying to actally make it longer than a single consonant will probably result in an artificially long consonant. The stress thing works better for me, even though it might not have linguistic grounds ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4429 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 43 of 170 12 January 2015 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think phonetically a double consonant might be pronounced slightly longer than a single one if it is in a stressed syllable, but the difference is very small and most Norwegians won't notice any difference. It might be a bit more noticable with nasal and fricative consonants like n or f, but even here the difference between "mannen" (the man) and "manen" (the mane e.g. of a horse) is due to the vowel length and not the length of the n.
In daegga's example it is the sentence prosody that matters, not the accent within the word as such, and in that case people may "artificially" make the consonant(s) longer in order to accentuate the whole word as such within the sentence. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6699 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 44 of 170 12 January 2015 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Expugnator - as Ogrim says, the vowel length is more important than how "long" you make the consonants. (OK, I know that Finnish has all combinations of long and short vowels and consonants) As long as you use the right vowel where you should, the consonant quantity is of lesser importance. By the way, a long "a" is [ɑː], i.e. not just a longer version of a short "a" [aː]. Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 12 January 2015 at 6:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| aloysius Triglot Winner TAC 2010 & 2012 Senior Member SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6030 days ago 226 posts - 291 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, German Studies: French, Greek, Italian, Russian | Message 45 of 170 12 January 2015 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Regarding "bile inn" I am not aware of any Swedish equivalent in the sense of commuting but it´s perfectly possible to use Swedish "bila" in phrases like "bila till kontinenten" or "bila genom Tyskland". For commuting the word "bilpendla" is frequently used. "Jag bilpendlar varje dag mellan Stockholm och Uppsala". Another useful phrase is "Jag tog bilen in till stan".
I agree about what has been said about consonant quantity above. It is easy to spot the difference in Finnish pronunciation between single and double consonants but I have never reflected on the existence of anything similar in the Scandinavian languages. By the way I consider taking up Icelandic this year so I might apply for a membership in Valhall/Sleipner/whatever you decide for your team name. It is nice to see that there is so much interest in the Scandinavian languages! //aloysius Edited by aloysius on 12 January 2015 at 8:59pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4956 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 46 of 170 12 January 2015 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You're welcome anytime, aloysius. Thank you for your feedback on Swedish. Thank you Ogrim, daegga and jeff, the discussion was really interesting and it all makes sense now. I am studying Estonian so I'm used to triple-length of consonant and vowel distinction =D
As for the team name, based on the overall discussion I see a preference for Sleipnir (myself included), so I've updated the roster, the thread title and will post at the main TAC thread to inform Josquin as well. In DK/NO/SV it's Sleipner, NN Sleipne, IS Sleipnir. So, Team Sleipnir shall it be! @suzukaze, this is the usual place for posting the challenges. You may have a copy at your log, but I think the point of the challenges is making them a team thread activity, and having each one post their own after another, this fits more into the spirit of being a team and doing things together. Edited by Expugnator on 12 January 2015 at 10:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| suzukaze Triglot Senior Member Italy bit.ly/1bGm459 Joined 4392 days ago 186 posts - 254 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, Spanish Studies: German, French, Swedish, Japanese | Message 47 of 170 13 January 2015 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
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@Expugnator OK, thanks a lot for clearing that up :)
I cannot add the Team name to my log title (I'm in a bunch of different teams XD), but I'll be sure to write it on my joined team list. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6699 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 48 of 170 14 January 2015 at 12:28am | IP Logged | |||||
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By the way #1: I'd like to have the challenges on the first page (maybe at the end of the first post, where it says who did what).
By the way #2: Since last Monday, I have spent some time on both Danish and Norwegian every day. It feels great! Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 14 January 2015 at 12:28am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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