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Esperanto Opinions | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6280 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 25 of 51 08 April 2010 at 12:00am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Trying to hold only language in your hands and then being surprised you're not holding
culture... weird indeed. For me, culture always exists outside of language. Language is often used as a tool in its production, and occasionally culture enters the language in the form of famous dictons and distinctions that reflect a "kultur-ero" (piece, part, grain?) of culture, but essentially they are as different as say biology and mathematics. Would you say that German has no culture then, and that you could not respect it? Standard German was developed based on many "dialects", quite a few of which were mutually incomprehensible, so we might be calling them languages today (like Dutch, and Frisian) if not for later historic developments. At the time that Standard German came up, the people who spoke those languages also had quite different customs, foods and ways of life (some still do). Edited by Sprachprofi on 08 April 2010 at 12:08am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| whipback Groupie United States Joined 5404 days ago 91 posts - 118 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French | Message 27 of 51 08 April 2010 at 3:16am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Could you explain more because it seems as if you are misunderstanding me? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Johntm Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5232 days ago 616 posts - 725 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 28 of 51 08 April 2010 at 5:51am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Plus, learning a language with no culture to go with it would just be weird to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6578 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 29 of 51 08 April 2010 at 6:56am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Swag comes from Old English, and it reminds me of thieves and pirates. I have never heard it used in a ghetto/rap
context (not that I listen to rap). I agree, a language without culture doesn't really make sense to me. It would be like light without colour. Edited by Captain Haddock on 08 April 2010 at 6:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| unityandoutside Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5824 days ago 94 posts - 149 votes Speaks: English*, Russian Studies: Latin, Mandarin | Message 30 of 51 08 April 2010 at 7:21am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
It's not inherently intellectual, but the most I've met who have displayed interest in it have been in some sense "intellectuals." The average person here isn't really interested in learning languages, much less a language such as esperanto, without a "culture," or perhaps more importantly, without any GDP to speak of. So it's just completely dismissed, even though it is easy. The reasons that one would learn esperanto are ones that have appeal to intellectual types more than to others. Edited by unityandoutside on 08 April 2010 at 7:26am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Johntm Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5232 days ago 616 posts - 725 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 31 of 51 08 April 2010 at 7:50am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
But swag/swagger is used in rap songs, hell there's a song called "Turn my swag on." Don't look it up, it's terrible. But my point is still that culture can influence a language (I'm sure you'd agree). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blunderstein Triglot Pro Member Sweden schackhandeln.se Joined 5228 days ago 60 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Swedish*, EnglishC2, FrenchB2 Studies: German, Esperanto Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 51 08 April 2010 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I disagree. However, please be more specific. For instance, describe which languages construct words the way Esperanto does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_grammar) The suffixes and affixes are, as far as I know, not found in other languages. There are other languages that are agglutinative, but from what I've read no other language takes this as far as Esperanto (except, of course, some other constructed languages which build on Esperanto). Also, please check the "Correlatives" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_correlatives_%28Esper anto%29#Correlatives). You might not like the idea, but if this could be made up easily, it should be easy for you to point out other languages that use something similar. One point of Esperanto grammar is often critized on the grounds that it is difficult and not found in other languages: the accusative case suffix -n. Some later constructed languages build on Esperanto but do away with the -n. Perhaps it would have been a good idea not to have it in Esperanto in the first place, but nowadays it's too late to change that, at least by a reform decided on officially. Like any other living language, Esperanto evolves (slowly).
I never said that Esperanto is unique because the people who speak it. I said that Esperanto is unique because of the community and the culture. A community is more than just the sum of individuals in the community. Swedish is unique because of the culture and the communities that speak it. The language in itself wouldn't be all that much to be excited about. The same can be said for English, German... (no offense intended to anyone). The Esperanto community has developed a culture, including poetry, literature, songs etc. Your assumption seems to be that all the people who have learned Esperanto only learned to use the language, and that nothing in the Esperanto community has evolved. On the contrary, quite a lot has happened, and a culture has developed. This culture did not exist when Esperanto was first introduced. Many of your criticisms would perhaps be valid if you directed them at some other constructed language, most of which do not have any substantial following or a community which has succeeded in creating a culture.
So you mean that just because a common culture does not exist in a group, it cannot develop over time? In that case, I guess that there is no such thing as American culture apart from the cultures of Native Americans, since the immigrants who arrived from Europe and other places did not (in the very beginning) have a common culture. Funny, I was under the impression that there is indeed an American culture.
Please explain again. The culture based on "The Lord of the Rings" has arisen since those wonderful books were published. The culture based on Esperanto has arisen since the description of the Esperanto was published. Where is the difference?
Where did you get this impression that the people who speak Esperanto have nothing in common? On the contrary, we have a lot in common.
Ok, apology accepted. I believe that this is the basic point where our opinions differ: you look at Esperanto the way it was the day it was invented. I look at Esperanto the way it is today. And yes, there are definitely a lot of people who truly consider themselves Esperantists. I'm one, even though my command of the language still leaves a lot to be desired. However, I doubt that there are many (or any) people who _only_ consider themselves Esperantists. For instance, I consider myself a Swede (primarily), a Quaker, an Esperantist and a few other things that I won't mention here. There are even people who speak Esperanto natively. In most cases, the parents met during an Esperanto meeting/congress, got married and decided to bring their children up with two languages, Esperanto being one of them. Edit: spelling Edited by Blunderstein on 08 April 2010 at 12:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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