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ʐ in żona / rzeka contrast? | ||
Tags: Polish | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| atamagaii Senior Member Anguilla Joined 6016 days ago 181 posts - 195 votes  Speaks: Apache* | Message 9 of 14 08 February 2008 at 9:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Why do you insist on producing too early? You'll get lost.
dżem on wikipedia does sound like one sound. Sounds (or rather phonemes) like cz, dż, dź, dz are made of two sounds pronounced very quickly together, like ch in English, for instance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6249 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 10 of 14 08 February 2008 at 10:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
To give myself a better idea of what's going on. I find that if I listen a large number of times (and I've listened literally -thousands- of times to some of the wikipedia clips in the last 3 days - ie, looping things of less than a second for over an hour..), and then repeat a few times, abandoning active production quickly if I'm far off and reading explicit phonetic explanation, then listening a lot more and trying again, that it seems to work decently for me. For a few of the 'easy' clips (ie, after I'd listened to the vowels thousands of times, and the consonants were fairly English-like) I listened closer to half a dozen; these were very much a minority. I probably did get into too much production too early with my dz-variants experiments though. For what it's worth: after the hours I've put in doing this on the last few days (I think roughly 10-12, but I could be off by a couple of hours either way, as I'm not timing), Polish no longer sounds 'exotic' for the most part, and in the ~20 minutes I just spent listening to "The Master and Margarita", I could differentiate the different c/s/z sounds, rather than being confused that some sounded slightly different but without having a mental model of what was going on. Both palatal and retroflex sounds were 'exotic' to me a few days ago. The orthography starts to make a little sense too; it was really throwing me even yesterday. (And no... I'm not going to write yet, I mean passively - I am trying to keep production fairly minimal, even if non-zero for purely phonetic things).
Thanks; I'm glad to have some confirmation that I'm hearing it correctly to at least that degree.
Yeah. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| atamagaii Senior Member Anguilla Joined 6016 days ago 181 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Apache* | Message 11 of 14 08 February 2008 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thousands of times! I'd go crazy! You must be very patient.
Consonats in Polish may be: zmiękczona - twarda, eg piasek - pasek dźwięczna - bezdźwięczna, eg bas - pas Voiceless English consonats are much stronger, Polish p, t, k, are not aspirated. t, d, n, l, s, z are pronounced with the tip of the tongue on the teeth, whereas in English they are alveolar consonants. Remember? I gave you Wielki słownik PWN-Oxford. Look there for: Notes on Polish Grammar I. SPELLING AND PRONUNCIATION II. MORPHOLOGY III. SYNTAX 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6249 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 12 of 14 09 February 2008 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes and no -- I can be extremely patient with some things, and extremely impatient with others. For things like phonetics and coding/debugging, yes; for repetition in places where it could easily be eliminated, no. Edit: For instance, I literally cannot use FSI. During mechanical drilling, my brain turns off, and I learn almost nothing.
I'll read that once I've Listen-Read tomorrow. Edited by Volte on 09 February 2008 at 4:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6249 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 14 of 14 28 September 2008 at 7:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks; it's cool to know that Czech maintained the difference.
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