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How to use scriptorum? | ||
Tags: Alexander Arguelles | Writing | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| crazyleseratte Pentaglot Newbie Germany crazyleseratte.wordpRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3764 days ago 26 posts - 33 votes Speaks: English, German*, Spanish, French, Italian Studies: Dutch, Danish, Mandarin, Japanese, Russian | Message 1 of 5 29 May 2015 at 3:26pm | IP Logged |
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I wanted to give this technique a shot, since I am struggling with endings in Russian.
But I do have a couple of questions, first. My general approach is, that I do write all the text in a big notebook. I also highlight important aspects, make notes at the margin, and write translations of the words I don't know above the text. Also: I do mix normal texts and grammar aspects (I rewrite sentences from the exercises or put declension tables in the notebook). I have also started doing this for all the languages, so I mix those in my book. I also heard, that some people do translate those texts afterwards. Would it be wise to keep the translations on an extra sheet or even in an extra notebook? Is translating useful? Is the method useful, for a language where I already have a vast vocabulary, and can read comfortably? If so, where would I start, if I was already in the middle of my textbook?`Do I start in the back, or should I still start at the beginning? Do you only use assimil with scriptorum? I started off with TY/ Langenscheidt. Do you have any other tips for me? Edited by crazyleseratte on 29 May 2015 at 3:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6399 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 2 of 5 29 May 2015 at 3:46pm | IP Logged |
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Prof Argüelles generally uses it with literature, I think. The goal is not only to improve your accuracy but to sound more natural in general, so I would avoid sources written in Textbookese. Since you can already read comfortably, just choose something you enjoy reading. Maybe Chehov? Obviously you want to avoid authors with long complicated sentences, like Tolstoy.
Or wait, your "language where you can read comfortably" is smth like Italian/French/Dutch? The usefulness depends on what you are trying to achieve. Scriptorium should be good for getting the endings right, yes. For focusing on little details and noticing where related languages differ from one another. For improving your style. Translating is mostly useful for developing your translation skills. It won't help you use the correct endings and can even make it difficult to think in the language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| crazyleseratte Pentaglot Newbie Germany crazyleseratte.wordpRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3764 days ago 26 posts - 33 votes Speaks: English, German*, Spanish, French, Italian Studies: Dutch, Danish, Mandarin, Japanese, Russian | Message 3 of 5 29 May 2015 at 4:37pm | IP Logged |
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I do not feel comfortable in Russian yet, I am pretty much beginner. I was indeed
refering to languages like Italian. I thought: Russian scriptorum for endings and other grammar aspects script orum in other languages for those tiny but annoying mistakes vocabu lary acquisition through translation This might be off topic, but .... The thing is, I do want to alter my method a bit, so I started (re)watching videos of fellow language learners, and thought about what works for me. Up to now I have worked through a book, either by learning the vocab with anki or normal flashcards. I have read through the grammar (several times). In some languages I have done the exercises. For audio input I have been using TV shows (mostly dubbed of shows I already know) Recently I have started language exchange and writing on lang-8 and I noticed some discrepancies.... 1) I tend to reinvent Italian for its similarity to Spanish / French 2) I can read French (even Proust and other Classics) and express myself quite well, but I have to ask and reask my conversation partner, because I still do have trouble understanding. The same goes for TV shows: I do understand what's going on (but only the gist of the show or movie, and no details) 3) Russian - well I haven't been too deep into that language yet, so I think I just have to do something more, and it will come to me 4) Dutch works pretty well 5) Danish listening is a catastrophe, I tend to forget vocabulary and confuse it with my Dutch (a lot) 6) Chinese - I think I am doing okay: I have been working through a coursebook, and I can comfortably follow the contents. I understand, I manage the exercises (translations and oral exercises) quite okay. I have started working on my pronunciation lately with FSI. So: there are a couple of things, I want to improve, and I thought that scriptorum and translations might be a good way.But if anyone has any ideas or tips I would really appreciate it..... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6711 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 5 29 May 2015 at 5:27pm | IP Logged |
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From the Learn any language wikia:
1.Take a sentence and read it aloud. 2.Speak aloud again as you write it carefully. 3.Read the sentence aloud from what you have written. --- As simple as that. Writing things down helps us to focus on details. It makes sense to use Assimil if you've already studied it. Perhaps you've even shadowed it. You're familiar with the content, and will internalize it even more by adding another step. I know people who have copied entire textbooks long before Arguelles made the scriptorium method famous here on HTLAL and Youtube. So, there's no reason why you can't use TY/Langenscheidt, as long as you find the exercise worthwhile. Start at the beginning if you want. If not - don't. I've copied one Assimil course, started three others, as well as at least three other non-Assimil textbooks. My main problem is time management and pain. Writing Chinese is difficult by default, and writing for 15 minutes, half an hour (or longer) is painful. Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 14 August 2015 at 1:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6505 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 5 01 June 2015 at 10:41am | IP Logged |
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If you use the term 'scriptorium' then you are clearly referring to the method described by professor Arguelles, where speaking aloud is an important element. And well, I know I should read aloud more often, but I spend most of my time at home with earphones on, listening to things that can drown out unwanted sounds from neighbours and other vile entities, and when I'm out in the free far from such disturbances I'm generally also far from my papers. So I hardly ever use scriptorium in its pure form, but I do use copying in several forms.
The main reason to write things down is to slow you down to a speed where you can't avoid paying attention to the details. If you know all the words and feel confortable with grammar at least on a passive level I can't see the reason to copy whole texts unless you want to memorize them verbatim - and then there are probably more efficient methods available. But crazylesweratte also mentioned grammar (including the fearsome Russian endings), and here text copying is definitely relevant - particularly if combined with easy reference to grammar tools like my own 'green sheets' or the simplified grammars in language guides or on Wikipedia. The main point here is not exhaustive information about any item, but rather quick and dirty lookup possibilities (like those a dictionary gives you for vocabulary). If you just read a text at normal speed you might notice a few 'meaning' words and some colorful expressions, but you would skip all the small insignificant words and grammatical quirks. However when things get down on paper (or on an electronic gadget for ye youngsters) you can stop up in the middle of a sentence to check an ending or an unexpected pronoun - but you wouldn't want to spend too much time on each lookup. As for translations - well, I have done hyperliteral translations 'between the lines' in some cases where the sentence constructions in a new language were very different from those in Danish or English (Greek, Irish), but from the moment where you have internalized the foreign structures there is no reason to translate everything. Put a wawy line below things you want to remember or add a hyperliteral translation (and if need be: a 'meaningful' translation) to the text at the relevant spot, but writing a complete translation is a waste of time. NB: I have experimented with techniques based on translation + retranslation, but it was irritating to write a lot of stuff in Danish just to have a reference. It is easier to do a text copy from a bilingual text, where you take time to read the translation carefully, and then you can try to do 'blind' copying where you read through original text with the translation and then try to do reinvent the original text just from the translation. That exdercise has the same effect as the full translation + retranslation, but you avoid writing the actual translation into your own language. Edited by Iversen on 01 June 2015 at 11:01am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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