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Gary’s 2015 TACtivation: FR, IT | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4998 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 17 of 187 09 January 2015 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Music
This week's album for the music challenge: Kaos One - Post Scripta I've been looking for more Italian hip-hop lately; the only act I really knew before was Fabri Fibra. I listen to a lot of Italian rock (Marlene Kuntz, Afterhours, etc.) so I felt like a change of genre, and hip-hop seems quite popular amongst the young Italians I know. So I checked out a few of the other big groups; the most obvious choice is Articolo 31, which is good but a little too chilled-out for my tastes. I like a bit of a harder edge, which Kaos One has. Reading and watching... in Italian Ultimamente c'è un certo tema siciliano con Il gattopardo e La piovra. Sono arrivato più o meno al 75% del Gattopardo, e ne ho sentimenti contrastanti. Senza dubbio la scrittura è meravigliosa e interessante dal punto di vista culturale e storico, però per me il linguaggio è un po' troppo difficile e così avanzo a fatica. Con tutte le parole che devo cercare, faccio fatica a seguire la storia e a immergermene. Sarò contento di finirlo e passare a qualcosa di più facile e moderno. In genere i romanzi storici non fanno proprio per me, però possono essere rilassanti siccome mi trasportano lontano dal quotidiano. Una buona scelta prima di andare a letto o in mezzo a una giornata impegnativa. English: There's been a certain Sicilian theme recently with Il gattopardo and La piovra. I'm about 75% through Il gattopardo now, and I have mixed feelings about it. It's wonderfully written and culturally and historically interesting, no doubt about it, but the level of the language is a bit too difficult for me so it's a bit of a slog. I'm having to look up so many words that it's hard to follow the story and immerse myself in it. I'll be happy to finish it and move onto something easier and more modern. Generally historical fiction isn't really my thing, however it can be relaxing as it takes me away from everyday life. A good choice before going to bed or in the middle of a busy day. Edited by garyb on 09 January 2015 at 12:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 3890 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 18 of 187 09 January 2015 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | ||
Ecco perché io ho come obiettivo a leggere Il Gattopardo (il mio libro preferito) quando sono vecchia. Non era facile a leggere in svedese (non è difficile ma ha bisogno di tempo). ;) Fino a quando posso leggere un tale libro, guarderò il film. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4998 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 19 of 187 09 January 2015 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | ||
Ahah, sono contento di sapere che non è stato facile nemmeno nella tua lingua madre ;) 250 pagine non sembrano tante ma il libro è abbastanza denso, diciamo. Forse anch'io avrei dovuto aspettare qualche anno e accontentarmi nel mentre del film (che guarderò una volta che avrò terminato il libro). Also I forgot this in my last post: My latest Italian YouTube discovery, Scottecs. Lots of hilarious short cartoons, if you like absurd/random humour. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5267 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 20 of 187 10 January 2015 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi Gary,
Welcome to Team français. Someome else stated it and I agree; your 2015 goals are very clearly explained. Your log so far seems quite interesting I must say; I think it's the way you express your thoughts in writing- concise. You are quite the opposite of myself when it comes to desired learning materials. I tend to use mainly courses, whereas I see you certainly enjoy books and films. I'm not so well versed when it comes to books/authors/genres/literature, I hated reading with a passion in my teenage years. That, coupled with the fact I strongly gravitate toward analysing whatever it may be I enjoy learning (usually languages) often intricately, seems to be why I prefer courses- I avoid too much reading (although I do enjoy it nowadays but don't have a strong foundation) and get to analyse everything as whatever course 'explains ' the language to me and I analyse it further. Good luck with your reading this year Gary! I had to smile when you said Spanish comes easier than French while drunk. I agree, for my pronunciation of French I have constantly had to focus on almost every syllable with the "focus-effort meter" ramped up to 4 out 5 (5/5 reserved for unknown seemingly more difficult tonal languages like Mandarin) while Spanish only requires 1.5/5 and Dutch 2.5/5 mainly a tad trickier than Spanish pronunciation in my opinion due to the seemingly higher number of obvious foreign loan words which are not as predictable phonetically than more traditional Dutch words. This is exactly why I disagree with the scale by the Foreign Service Institute on the time it takes to learn various foreign languages as an English as one's mother-tongue speaker. French IS harder to enunciate and master fluidity if one wants to at least sound like they're not butchering the language. To be fair I don't think the FSI factors in accent (meaning their scale is based on learning the languages regardless of accent). So I agree, for us learners, French requires more focus it seems when reproducing the language in a spontaneous environment. Again, good luck in 2015, I like your wisely thought out goals, I'll be following along :) PM 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4998 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 21 of 187 12 January 2015 at 10:58am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks PeterMollenburg and good luck to you too! I've followed some of your log as well and it seems interesting. I'm happy that you think my writing is "concise"; in the past I've been guilty of writing posts that go on a bit, in my previous logs for example, so I've tried to improve at putting my point across in fewer words.
On courses versus native materials I'd say my viewpoint is quite balanced. At the beginner stage I use courses, and then gradually mix in films and TV etc. later. Even at intermediate and advanced levels I believe courses can help, especially if there's a specific aspect of the language you want to improve. For example I found the "Perfectionnement" edition of Grammaire Progressive very useful to "clean up" my spoken French, and am slowly working through a couple of Italian grammar books with the same goal. Glad you agree about French pronunciation :) It really is a big factor in spontaneous speaking. For that and the social aspects (difficulty of finding helpful native speakers etc.), I'd say French a slightly more difficult language to learn than its neighbours Spanish and Italian, for me at least. On the other hand, Italian and Spanish do have much trickier verb conjugations for example, so maybe a learner with a better ear for pronunciation and better social skills but a less analytical mind for grammar would have an easier time with French. It's hard to compare difficulty especially when you add personal and social factors to the linguistic ones. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4998 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 22 of 187 12 January 2015 at 11:20am | IP Logged | ||
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On the subject of social aspects of language learning, I was at a party yesterday that I thought summed up my experiences with the native speakers of each language completely, almost stereotypically.
Over half of the people there were Italian. I chatted a bit with one of the hosts, a friend whom I used to meet for language exchanges until she got a job and became too busy (common story). Other than that, a lot of them were quite reluctant to include me in their conversations and would only address me in English, even after finding out that I speak Italian. So I got plenty listening practice but not much speaking. My general experience with Italians is about 50/50: half of them are happy to speak with and help learners, while half have this almost snobby attitude whereby if you're not Italian they don't really take you seriously and you'll never really be part of their group, linguistically or socially. The rest were mostly Spanish speakers. As soon as they found out I knew some Spanish, they were loving it and chatting away to me, telling each other "this guy wants to practise Spanish, speak with him!", teaching me words (even a few in Basque and Catalan...), giving me encouragement, and saying they wished more people here were interested in languages. Even though my Spanish is pretty basic, maybe B1 at best and very rusty these days, and I was quite honest about my level and the fact that I don't study it actively any more. Needless to say I spent most of the party at the Spanish side of the table. I wonder if part of the difference between the attitudes is because Spanish is spoken in so many different areas of the world that nobody can really claim exclusivity on it, while Italian can be seen as for Italy and its people only. As for the French speakers... Not a single one to be found. They were probably away being French at their own exclusive French-only party. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3647 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 23 of 187 12 January 2015 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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You clearly attend all the best parties. Shame about the French people, though. A new
goal for the year: make French friends who will invite us to their parties! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4998 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 24 of 187 12 January 2015 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | ||
Haha, now that's a nice ambitious goal for the year, get invited to French people's parties! I don't think I've ever been to a French party, apart from one that was a Meetup.com event and that doesn't really count since on Meetup you can invite yourself :). I've been a few parties with mostly Spaniards and Italians like the one I described, and at the bigger ones you'll often find a token French person. Last time this happened, it was a French girl who spoke English with a Spanish accent because her friends were mostly Spanish. Quite funny but hardly surprising, living in Edinburgh. Maybe you'll have better luck than me since you're a student: most of the younger French people I encounter here are here to study. Although the flip side of that is that if they're studying here they generally speak English well so practising French with them can be trickier. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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