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Radioclare
Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
timeofftakeoff.com
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Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto
Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian

 
 Message 17 of 25
14 February 2015 at 6:17pm | IP Logged 
Yes, the Tolkien translations are definitely expensive - I think it is about €75 for
the set of 'Mastro de l'Ringoj' :(

I don't often read fantasy, so not I'm not sure whether there is any original stuff or
not. Perhaps Volte will know. I did read a book about a Martian invasion in Esperanto
once, but I think it might have been a translation from Russian actually. Some people
worked really hard on a translation of the first Harry Potter book, but have never
received permission to publish it unfortunately. That hasn't stopped illicit copies of
it circulating on the Internet. I have it somewhere, although I haven't read Harry
Potter in any language so not sure how good the translation is.

And you are right, of course, that there is no Esperanto football, beyond occasional
matches for fun during congresses.
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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 Message 18 of 25
14 February 2015 at 6:43pm | IP Logged 
Yeah I have a translation of a book by the Strugatskie brothers. I think a lot of Russian stuff has been translated into Esperanto (and I've read for example the Pushkin works I'm familiar with).

Haha I don't mean an actual team/federation etc... just an opportunity to watch matches or read about football or discuss it in Esperanto :D
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robarb
Nonaglot
Senior Member
United States
languagenpluson
Joined 3598 days ago

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Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French
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 Message 19 of 25
15 February 2015 at 2:08am | IP Logged 
Radioclare wrote:

What is it that people are struggling to find?


I'm aware that these books in Esperanto exist, but they have zero media presence in the USA. Physical bookshops
don't carry them. Libraries don't have them. Amazon doesn't carry very many of them. Maybe you can get them
on eBay, but you can't easily sort on books in a particular language there, so it's hard to find unless you know
exactly what you're looking for. It's not that we can't find stuff, but it's just difficult to browse, as a more casual
Esperantist. I would appreciate links to the major works that are free and open on the Internet, plus any
recommended sellers (ideally, without the extra expense of shipping from Europe). There must be something
better than scrounging Amazon, right?

There is a not-all-that Concise Encyclopedia of the Original Literature of Esperanto, 1887-2007 by Geoffrey
Sutton, but for those of us who have a good command of the language but have never read original Esperanto
literary works, what's a good starting point?

There are several podcasts that don't show up in searches on the major apps, which I was only able to find
through recommendations on this site.

It's just hard to sift through the random Internet chaff and find professional-quality things worth
reading/watching/listening. I'm aware that there are Esperanto-language news sites, TV channels and Youtube
channels, but I don't know of any really good ones. If you just search and click the first ones that come up,
they're OK but there's probably better stuff seasoned Esperantists could point to.

It doesn't mean we think Esperanto lacks materials-- the same thing can happen for major national languages.
There isn't really an obvious way to find out "What media do Dutch people watch on the Internet, and what are
the convenient ways of buying Dutch books in X country?" We find some things by Internet search, and others
from friendly tips.

Edited by robarb on 15 February 2015 at 2:13am

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Radioclare
Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
timeofftakeoff.com
Joined 3122 days ago

689 posts - 1119 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto
Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian

 
 Message 20 of 25
15 February 2015 at 12:50pm | IP Logged 
Ah okay, understood :)


robarb wrote:
I'm aware that these books in Esperanto exist, but they have zero media presence in the USA. Physical bookshops
don't carry them. Libraries don't have them. Amazon doesn't carry very many of them. Maybe you can get them
on eBay, but you can't easily sort on books in a particular language there, so it's hard to find unless you know
exactly what you're looking for. It's not that we can't find stuff, but it's just difficult to browse, as a more casual
Esperantist. I would appreciate links to the major works that are free and open on the Internet, plus any
recommended sellers (ideally, without the extra expense of shipping from Europe). There must be something
better than scrounging Amazon, right?


I think this is a problem for everyone, regardless of where they live. I definitely wouldn't buy off Amazon; if it's anything like the UK version there are people trying to sell Esperanto books which aren't at all rare for hugely inflated prices. As an example, 'Jen Nia Mondo' (book 1) is currently for sale on amazon.co.uk for £12 from The Book Depository, whereas the Esperanto Association of Britain (who published it) are currently selling it for £6 on their website. There is also someone on Amazon trying to sell the same book for £63.95. I really hope people don't pay those kinds of prices!

To avoid shipping costs in the USA you are probably limited to the online bookstore of Esperanto USA. I've never bought from there, but it looks like it has quite a good collection and the books are divided into categories to make browsing easier. It's worth pointing out that they also have a page for used books which may be significantly cheaper than buying new.

You could also investigate Mondial, who are a publisher who have published several Esperanto books in recent years, including the Wells dictionary. Again, I've never made a purchase directly from them but my understanding is that they are based in New York.

Those who live in Europe have more options as there are at least three large Esperanto booksellers:

Universala Esperanto-Asocio
Esperanto-Asocio de Britio
Flandra Esperanto-Ligo

Of those, FEL probably have the most user-friendly website and they also sell a limited number of e-books.

For those in the USA, it is worth noting that if there is something you desperately want from the UEA bookstore but the postage costs are prohibitive, you may be able to get in touch with Esperanto USA and ask them to order it for you. They will be ordering books from UEA at various points during the year anyway, so would probably be willing to combine your book with their order.

Esperanto-Asocio de Britio regularly sell second-hand books on ebay, with prices starting at 99p. These do ship all over the world and if you contact the seller they are happy to hold on to purchases you make for a while and send a bundle all in one go to reduce the postage.

Quote:
There is a not-all-that Concise Encyclopedia of the Original Literature of Esperanto, 1887-2007 by Geoffrey
Sutton, but for those of us who have a good command of the language but have never read original Esperanto
literary works, what's a good starting point?


Haha, yes I would love to ask Geoffrey what the book would have looked like if he hadn't tried to make it concise :D But I suspect he wouldn't appreciate the question. I think it took him seven years to write.

My first recommendation would be Star in a Night Sky which is an anthology of Esperanto literature translated into English. It was published as part of a series on the literature of lesser-known European languages and it contains a good selection of poems, short stories, extracts from plays and novels etc. I think it would be quite useful for beginners in Esperanto because you could use it as a parallel text.

For original Esperanto literature, I would recommend starting with Claude Piron because he writes well and clearly. Learners may be familiar with his story 'Gerda Malaperis', around which several Esperanto courses have been based. Esperanto-Asocio de Britio has obtained the permission to publish his books online and is in the process of doing so. There are eight books available for download here in pdf/epub format and there are more which will eventually go up.

In terms of other sources of free Esperanto literature online, these are the sites that I am aware of:

Project Gutenberg
La arkivo de Don Harlow
i-Espero
Bretaro
Österreichische Nationalbibliothek (some of those are about Esperanto rather than in it).

If you just want to practise a little bit of reading in Esperanto on a regular basis, it may be easier/cheaper to subscribe to a magazine instead. Monato for example is a monthly news magazine in Esperanto, where the rule is that contributors can only write news articles about events in their countries. So it is sometimes really interesting, because you get a perspective on what is happening in a country from someone who lives in that country (and that may be completely different to the perspective that your national broadcaster of news is giving you. I'm not sure how much it costs to subscribe for a year, but I'm fairly sure you can have it as a pdf only which is presumably cheaper than a print copy.

I'm afraid I'm the worst possible person to ask about audio as I never listen to any. My only recommendation would be Muzaiko which I'm guessing people already know about.
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liam.pike1
Groupie
Australia
Joined 2293 days ago

84 posts - 122 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Esperanto, French

 
 Message 21 of 25
16 February 2015 at 12:06pm | IP Logged 
If you can get through all of these books then I'll take my hat off to you, because there are tonnes of them (including the Old and New Testament). There appears to be mostly translations, but there are some original Esperanto works as well. Take a look through the list; it's interesting to see many famous authors represented here...

Esperanto e-books (elibroj)
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Radioclare
Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
timeofftakeoff.com
Joined 3122 days ago

689 posts - 1119 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto
Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian

 
 Message 22 of 25
17 February 2015 at 10:32pm | IP Logged 
Specially for Serpent, I present to you Tutmonda Esperanto Futbala Asocio
:D

(Don't you just love the kits?!)

In relation to e-books, one thing I would add is that compared to more mainstream languages, Esperanto is a bit behind the times at the
moment. I think in general the Esperanto community has only started taking notice of e-books over the last couple of years, but momentum is
building now and I would expect the number of books appearing in electronic format to increase significantly over the next few years.

The other general point I would make is that almost anything which is produced in Esperanto is done by volunteers, as opposed to most
languages which have governments and institutions with paid staff supporting them. Sometimes things just don't exist yet because no one has
thought of it or had time to put a thought into action yet. Muzaiko is a good case in point; back in 2010/11 several people were
independently thinking that what Esperanto needed was a 24-hour radio station, but no one person had the skills, time and energy to set it
up. Someone who is now one of the main organisers of the station approached me during the British Esperanto Conference in 2011 to ask
whether I knew anything about radio (she was misled by the fact that online I often use the username radioclare!) I know nothing
about radio at all, but I did have a friend (also at the conference) who was at the time working as an engineer on the biggest student radio
station in the UK. The two of them were introduced and that chance encounter was the catalyst for Muzaiko, which was on the air a few months
later.

So in general I wouldn't not learn Esperanto because it doesn't have X, Y or Z yet (assuming you are otherwise interested in learning it, of
course). It may be that it acquires those things in the future or perhaps you could earn yourself immortal fame in the Esperanto Vikipedio
for being the first person to create that kind of content in the language :D
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Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 4978 days ago

4474 posts - 6725 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 23 of 25
18 February 2015 at 6:05pm | IP Logged 
Sorry for the brevity of this answer, compared to the depth of the questions, and how this post jumps around; I'm ill and exhausted.

Robarb: the secret of my 'wizardry' is primarily going to Esperanto events, and chatting for a couple of hours with the people running the libroservoj (that is, the people who bring and sell books there); it's how I found out about the recently-published "Homoj de Putin", for instance. Aside from that, I've read the Concise Encyclopedia from cover to cover. For buying books, I tend to use UEA's online bookstore or physical libroservoj, and I hear good things about the esperanto-usa online bookstore, but haven't used it.

Nice to see you too, Luke.

As Radioclare says, a lot of Esperanto booksellers end up wondering where to keep all the physical stock they have. There's really a ton of books. The flip side is that almost all of them have tiny print-runs, so getting specific ones can be tricky; it took me about 2 years of asking people to get my hands on "Tutmonda sonoro", since the big vendors are long out of stock of it, despite it being by one of Esperanto's best and most famous writers (Kalocsay).

Free books are really scattered around; there's no one good place to go. That said, Claude Piron's widow allowed all of his books to be freely available online: http://esperanto.org.uk/eldonoj/piron/. Project Gutenberg has a bunch of Esperanto books, but they seem to skew towards being boring.

With regards to science, it's varied over time to some extent. A Japanese guy published a fairly big aerodynamics result in Esperanto in the 1920s; the end result of that is that it was independently discovered a few decades later, having failed to reach relevant people. Something observed since the earliest days of Esperanto is that around half the speakers tend to be math/science (and now, computer science) people. So, science publishing happens, but it all seems to be very piecemeal, and I don't have a good overview of what exists; I keep finding dictionaries and references to work on fakvortoj (technical terminology), and hearing about things on a one-by-one basis. I'd never heard of the relativity book Radioclare mentioned, for instance. Matthias Ulrich wrote a short book on linear algebra too. That said, I just thought about searching UEA's bookshop and found their science and technology category, which has over 300 books. Some aren't available, and some are about the EU or alchemy, but some look interesting. I'd never heard of “Anstataŭoj por keramikaj krudmaterialoj”, but perhaps it's the kind of thing Iversen would like, and there's a whole series of “Astronomia almanako” for different years.

As for myths and fantasy, I suppose a lot depends on how you define both. There's quite a lot of science fiction in Esperanto, both original (Konisi Gaku's “Vage tra la Dimensioj” is beautifully written; it's on William Auld's list of original Esperanto books worth reading for a reason) and translated – Impeto has been publishing translations of books by the Стругацкий brothers.I haven't seen original “high fantasy”, with Tolkeinesque elves, but Tolkein's been translated; I don't know whether or not it exists. Historical fiction, such as “La ŝtona urbo”, by Anna Löwenstein, certainly exists. On the other hand, a non-trivial amount of Esperanto fiction can be a bit surrealistic and possibly fall under the blanket of fantasy.

For myths: there are myths about Esperanto and various speakers of it (particularly Zamenhof), I suppose. Ziko van Dijk's "Mitoj kaj faktoj pri esperanto" tries to explode some myths, although it sometimes defaults to erring in the opposite direction (I seriously doubt Esperanto has 10 million speakers, but I absolutely don't believe it only has a few tens of thousands, either). "Homarano: La vivo, verkoj, kaj ideoj de d-ro L. L. Zamenhof" is an extensively researched book that addresses a lot of misconceptions about Zamenhof and the context he lived in, but it's extremely dry. There's satire about Esperanto culture/myths as well, dating back to Raymond Schwartz's “Verdkata testamento”.

Esperanto has cross-pollinated with several religions, including the Bahá'í, Spiritism (especially in Brazil), and Oomoto in Japan, and Martinism in Scandinavia. (Those are just some religions that actively promote Esperanto, and publish material in it; I'm not counting things like the Vatican's Esperanto internet radio station or various Esperanto groups for Catholics, atheists, etc).

A lot of discussions about specific topics take place in Facebook groups, or random corners of the internet; I don't know one for football, but I don't know that one doesn't exist, either (edit: I see that radioclare has linked to a Facebook group for this!) I believe there are *two* unauthorized translations of "Harry Potter" into Esperanto, by different groups.

Edited by Volte on 18 February 2015 at 7:51pm

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jeff_lindqvist
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 Message 24 of 25
18 February 2015 at 7:11pm | IP Logged 
Short answer to jvv426:
Any language serves a purpose if there are speakers who make use of it, just as any language can be a waste of time if you'll never use it.

(Original thread)

Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 18 February 2015 at 7:12pm



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