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Why don’t more dictionaries use IPA?

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30 messages over 4 pages: 1 24  Next >>
Retinend
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 Message 17 of 30
07 April 2014 at 2:17pm | IP Logged 
A relevant new Stuart Jay Raj video:

link

Edited by Retinend on 07 April 2014 at 2:18pm

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Cavesa
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 Message 18 of 30
09 April 2014 at 7:19pm | IP Logged 
I think IPA is an interesting thing but not necessary at all. I agree about the main reasons: You can have just as good descriptions based on the source language of the course you're working with and you can get audio. And the audio will always be a superior tool to IPA. And many languages are quite regular so there is no need to learn IPA on top of the language itself, unless you know for sure you're gonna use it for more languages.

As an illustration of why I think IPA is totally unneeded for most learners, have an example: Imagine Assimil. The lessons wouldn't include their "homemade" transcript of the pronunciation, there would be IPA. And the preview would be like "Welcome to Assimil, you'll be learning with ease. But first you need to learn this new alphabet which you'll be using in the beginnings of learning only and never when communicating in the language itself".

Actually, I had an English teacher who tried to teach us IPA (us=11 years old beginners, teach=occassionaly write something in it without having explained it before and than she was surprised and angry we didn't know what the hell she was talking about). :-D

So, I think it is a nice thing, surely interesting for scholars, surely more precise than the other ways of writing down the pronunciation (once you drain the time into learning IPA itself) but I think wider spread of its use (I've seen it in many dictionaries but never in a coursebook actually) would have zero effect on the results of 99% of learners in my opinion.

Edited by Cavesa on 09 April 2014 at 7:20pm

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Марк
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 Message 19 of 30
09 April 2014 at 7:43pm | IP Logged 
Josquin wrote:
 English and French cannot be compared. You can predict how French words need to be pronounced if you know the rules, while English is very irregular. There are very few exceptions to the rules in French, but unfortunately the rules themselves are a bit complex.

However, for languages like Spanish and German, IPA is not necessary, because you can derive the pronunciation from the way words are spelt. Unfortunately, a lot of language learners don't really deal with pronunciation rules, which leads to unnecessary mispronunciations.

Why are so many people against of learning the pronunciation rules in Russian and state that the pronunciation can learned from ear or is unimportant at all?
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Марк
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 Message 20 of 30
09 April 2014 at 7:56pm | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:

As an illustration of why I think IPA is totally unneeded for most learners, have an example: Imagine Assimil. The lessons wouldn't include their "homemade" transcript of the pronunciation, there would be IPA. And the preview would be like "Welcome to Assimil, you'll be learning with ease. But first you need to learn this new alphabet which you'll be using in the beginnings of learning only and never when communicating in the language itself".

Actually, I had an English teacher who tried to teach us IPA (us=11 years old beginners, teach=occassionaly write something in it without having explained it before and than she was surprised and angry we didn't know what the hell she was talking about). :-D

So, I think it is a nice thing, surely interesting for scholars, surely more precise than the other ways of writing down the pronunciation (once you drain the time into learning IPA itself) but I think wider spread of its use (I've seen it in many dictionaries but never in a coursebook actually) would have zero effect on the results of 99% of learners in my opinion.

Learning the IPA adopted to a certain language is very easy. IPA is used in any textbook of English.
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Cavesa
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 Message 21 of 30
09 April 2014 at 8:06pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:

Learning the IPA adopted to a certain language is very easy. IPA is used in any textbook of English.


Not in any then. And even though it may be in some, I have yet to meet a learner who used it and found it helpful.
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Марк
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 Message 22 of 30
09 April 2014 at 10:16pm | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:
Марк wrote:

Learning the IPA adopted to a certain language is very easy. IPA is used in any textbook of English.


Not in any then. And even though it may be in some, I have yet to meet a learner who used it and found it helpful.

Let's meet.
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Josquin
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 Message 23 of 30
09 April 2014 at 10:28pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
Марк wrote:

Learning the IPA adopted to a certain language is very easy. IPA is used in any textbook of English.


Not in any then. And even though it may be in some, I have yet to meet a learner who used it and found
it helpful.

Let's meet.

This must be the greatest pick-up line ever! Worthy of a true language nerd! :-D

As to your question: I simply don't know and I don't care. For my part, I do know the Russian
pronunciation rules, which, however, does not mean I pronounce everything correctly. Listening actually
helps in that regard.

Edited by Josquin on 09 April 2014 at 10:33pm

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Zireael
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 Message 24 of 30
14 April 2014 at 8:27am | IP Logged 
I can understand why not many dictionaries in print use IPA (I have problems printing some symbols myself :P). Also, the ease-of-use for a common John is a factor, too.

However, in the internet age, especially the on-line dictionaries could stand to use IPA more. It's not that hard to learn and it's a godsend for me, when listening doesn't really help to discern the correct pronunciation.


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