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Talking Fast | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| LorenzoGuapo Triglot Groupie United States Joined 6231 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: French | Message 1 of 10 05 February 2014 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sometimes, I hear from people who don't know a language well, the person would say of such and such language that the speakers talk so fast its hard to understand. I would have to admit that yes some speakers may talk faster than others but if you know the language to a high level that shouldn't phase you. What does everyone think about fast talkers, is it the speed or is it ther persons lack of language knowledge?
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 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6696 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 10 05 February 2014 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'd say it's the level of the learner that matters the most. All these threads about listening comprehension in general, and how to parse "machine-gun speak", and usually it boils down to the time spent on focused listening (with the help of texts) and focused pronunciation.
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| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4308 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 3 of 10 05 February 2014 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Some languages are spoken faster than others (in terms of syllables per second). The
lower the average density of information per syllable, the faster one has to speak to convey the same information per time unit as a speaker of a language with higher information density per syllable. Listening comprehension shouldn't be very much affected by this though, because the amount of information per time unit stays roughly the same for most languages. You just have to train your brain to focus on the important parts. More problematic is speaking. Speaking 8 syllables per second in a foreign languages is tough if you speak your native language with only 5 syllables per second. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5347 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 4 of 10 06 February 2014 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | ||
All those complicated waveforms still have to be translated into information somehow. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4796 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 5 of 10 07 February 2014 at 12:10am | IP Logged | ||
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It's only a matter of large enough amount of listening practice, in my opinion. Every new language sounds fast, even though some may be objectively faster than others. Immersion is the key.
I'd say this is a common trouble. Learners who give up after months (in some cases years) of learning because the natives speak fast or the radio, which their teacher stupidly recommended for practice too soon, are a usual sight. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6490 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 10 07 February 2014 at 10:07am | IP Logged | ||
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Fast speech can be crisp and clear and formulated in grammatically correct sentences, but it can also be slurry and mumbling and maybe even confused - so the number of syllables per minute isn't the only relevant factor. Actually there has been research concerning the speed of Danish versus Swedish, and the Danes consistently get through more syllables per time unit - but mainly because we tend to contract or skip syllables, whereas the Swedes need time to produce their whale-like singsong. And judged by the reactions of foreign language learners our speech habits are a problem for them.
We once had a discussion about the topic: should you deliberately train your comprehension on substandard materials, or should you concentrate on learning the language on the best available sources, leaving the rotten ones for later? I firmly supported the stance that it is better to stick to good, clear sources if you can find them. You can deal with problematic recordings later when you already have developed your listening skills to a reasonable level. And bad 'speed talkers' are definitely on my list of substandard resources. That being said, I normally think that the time it takes for developing from good understanding of clear, moderately paced speech without background noise to understanding the usual kind of speech with limited background noise in documentaries and news broadcasts is quite short. Standup comedians, humourous panel shows and supposedly 'realistic' speech in movies is one step further up the ladder. Edited by Iversen on 07 February 2014 at 10:12am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4231 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 7 of 10 19 June 2014 at 6:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Depends on your level of proficiency you may be able to pick up little bits of a conversation. Today I was
listening to a radio program in Mandarin. All they talked about was the World Cup soccer. All you needed was to pick up the 3 Chinese characters somewhere in the conversation: 世界杯 Shìjièbēi for the World Cup. There were at least 5 countries mentioned including Brazil, Uruguay, Spain, England & Holland. The Chinese pronunciation is quite close to the English (Bāxī, Wūlāguī, Xībānyá, Yīnggélán & Hélán) so the listening part isn't too bad. On a news broadcast some of the time the anchor would talk very fast. Other fast speakers tend to be comedians on TV or on stage doing standup comedy. But in a typical conversation you can always ask a native speaker politely: "I don't understand you," followed by: "can you speak more slowly?", "Je ne vous comprends pas", "veillez parler plus lentement, SVP" or "veillez parlez un peu plus lentement, SVP", "我不 明白", "你可以讲慢一点吗?" or "请讲慢一点". These should be the first 2 phrases you learn in any language. When people know you are learning their language, they tend to be more forgiving. Once there were several people together at the dinning table. 3 of them were Mandarin speakers and the other 3 were Cantonese speakers. Out of the Cantonese speakers 2 can also speak Mandarin at a high level although they were not native speakers and the other supposedly knew enough to listen in on the conversation. After a brief introduction, the last Cantonese speaker was just listening to the conversation going back and forth in Mandarin but had no participation for the whole evening. I don't think the Mandarin speakers were talking particularly fast. They were more focused on eating than talking. The last time I was in Houston, Texas, a couple presumably from Taiwan came up to me and asked in Mandarin about taking the shuttle bus into town from the airport. I was from out of town like them except that I asked the ticket counter for the airport shuttle 5 minutes ago. Their talking speed was average so it wasn't difficult to pick up the conversation. If you don't have enough proficiency in a language or comfortable speaking, even a conversation at normal speed can be difficult. Edited by shk00design on 19 June 2014 at 6:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3643 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 8 of 10 19 June 2014 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with Iversen. After sitting through hours of French university lectures, I can confirm that French lecturers get more
information in per lecture than English lecturers. This is, in part, due to the way that the university systems differ between France and England, but also because French is a language that tends to be spoken quite quickly. It takes some getting used to, and that is something the learner must take responsibility for. However, outside of this, there is the fact that French speakers skip syllables and shorten words. While this is also something a learner can eventually get used to, it may not be so easy for the learner to understand: spoken and written French are usually quite different depending on setting and register. And then there are people who really do just speak quickly, not because of the way the language is structured, not because they are speaking in an informal setting, but just because that is the way they are. I'm guilty of this myself: friends and family often have to ask me to slow down or repeat myself because they haven't understood something I have said, and if they have understood the task falls to them to 'interpret' for others. I've even been told I say things too quickly when speaking French, although this only happens when I'm really comfortable with whatever it is I'm trying to say. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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