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Ranking the "Medium Hard" Languages | ||
Tags: Difficulty | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4031 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 25 of 62 11 January 2014 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
It has become abstractized but that is what it "literally" means. Similar phenomena are with words like "ymmärtää", literally "mennä ympäri" and "käsittää", "pitää käsissään". 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| betelgeuzah Diglot Groupie Finland Joined 4179 days ago 51 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: Japanese, Italian | Message 26 of 62 11 January 2014 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well the more you know! Thanks for the explanation. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6934 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 27 of 62 11 January 2014 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
I haven't studied Russian, but I've got plenty of experience with the closely-related Ukrainian (not to mention other Slavonic languages) in addition to Turkish. Here's my impression of them for learning to use them passably/"properly" to native speakers. - Pronunciation Russian would take more effort from me to pronounce properly than Turkish. Vowel reduction, mobile stress and palatalization do not help. The only thing tricky about Turkish pronunciation for me is that while stress is often on the last syllable, I've been learning that it falls on other syllables depending on morphological rules with certain suffixes (e.g. -me negative imperative) or loanwords (stress pattern of the "donor" language is kept in the word). - Spelling This is related to above. Russian spelling falls between the stools when it comes to being morphological and phonemic. One example is хорошо "good, well", unstressed 'o' is pronounced a lot like 'a' and in this instance it sounds more like 'harasho' rather than 'horosho'. Turkish spelling is very phonemic, as you probably know. - Grammar It's a wash to me. Russian grammar has most of the Slavonic intricacies of grammatical gender, cases (at least 6 of them), verbal aspect, and consequent nuances inherent in syntax yielded by the aforementioned distinctions. Turkish grammar has most of the Turkic intricacies of heavy agglutination, cases (6 of them), treatment of tense, aspect and mood which doesn't neatly align with English perceptions of them, and very divergent syntax from English (daristani once touched on this final point). - Vocabulary This is harder for me to figure out since each language has its share of loanwords but the degree to which they're recognizable depends on how familiar or imaginative one is with "internationalisms". For example Russian вокзал for a large train station is from Vauxhall in "Vauxhall Gardens". In Turkish, otobüs is a bus but it sounds a lot more like its French source autobus than English "bus". Of course both languages have much vocabulary which for all intents and purposes is meaningless or unrecognizable to a English monoglot either because the etymological link is distant (English and Russian are Indo-European) or there isn't such a link in the first place (English and Turkish are unrelated). Perhaps Russian would have a slight edge in ease than Turkish on this aspect if we extrapolate what we see in Swadesh lists of English to Slavonic and English to Turkic. Overall I'd rank Russian as more difficult to learn than Turkish for an Anglophonic monoglot mainly because the difficulties in pronunciation and spelling more than offset the slightly greater transparency in lexicon. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4622 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 28 of 62 11 January 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
Russian is a complicated language, but it doesn't combine adjectives in the accusative with nouns in the prepostional case. Both words are in the prepositional case here! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4031 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 29 of 62 11 January 2014 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Exactly, "твойх" is plural genitive or prepositional.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4622 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 30 of 62 11 January 2014 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, it could be accusative for animate nouns, but eyes are not animate.
Moreover, it should be твоих and not твойх, as I'm just noticing now. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4031 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 31 of 62 11 January 2014 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Are you sure? I think my Russian textbook said that animate noun accusative is genitive in singular and nominative in plural, but I might misremember. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4622 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 32 of 62 11 January 2014 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm afraid you're misremembering. These are the rules for the formation of the accusative:
The accusative of animate masculine nouns is the same as the genitive in singular and plural. The accusative of inanimate masculine nouns is the same as the nominative in singular and plural. The accusative of animate feminine nouns is the same as the genitive in plural only. The accusative of inanimate feminine nouns is the same as the nominative in plural only (except nouns ending in -ь, whose accusative is the same as the nominative in singular as well). The accusative of neuter nouns is always the same as the nominative in singular and plural. In any case, твоих глазах can't be anything but prepositional, because the noun ending -ах only exists in the prepositional case. Edited by Josquin on 11 January 2014 at 6:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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