Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Team Катюша - TAC 2014 - TEAM THREAD

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
464 messages over 58 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 28 ... 57 58 Next >>
fabriciocarraro
Hexaglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
Brazil
russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3197 days ago

989 posts - 1454 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

 
 Message 217 of 464
03 April 2014 at 4:07pm | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
And you seem to forget that although we would like to, we do not start writing Russian from a base of being fluent in spoken Russian like you are :-)


Cristina is right. It's quite the opposite, I would say. We, foreigners, usually learn how to read and write in Russian MUCH earlier than even trying to speak it.
1 person has voted this message useful



Josquin
Heptaglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3326 days ago

2266 posts - 3992 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish
Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian

 
 Message 218 of 464
03 April 2014 at 4:37pm | IP Logged 
APRIL CHALLENGE

Thanks to everyone who completed the March challenge! This month's medals of honour go to:

YnEoS
milesaway
chokofingrz
Josquin
Solfrid Cristina

For the April challenge, I'd like to follow Cristina's suggestions. Please choose between the following two tasks:

1) Which Russian city would you like to go to and why? Give your explanation in Russian!
2) Describe your best friend in Russian!

Beginners should try to write at least five sentences. Advanced learners, however, should go into detail and write as much as they can.

Have fun with this month's challenge!
1 person has voted this message useful



milesaway
Triglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 2813 days ago

134 posts - 181 votes 
Speaks: French, English*, Russian
Studies: Finnish, Sign Language

 
 Message 219 of 464
03 April 2014 at 7:57pm | IP Logged 
I like both of those topics, can I write about both of them?
1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3538 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 220 of 464
03 April 2014 at 9:42pm | IP Logged 
fabriciocarraro wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
And you seem to forget that although we would like to, we do not start writing Russian from a base of being fluent in spoken Russian like you are :-)


Cristina is right. It's quite the opposite, I would say. We, foreigners, usually learn how to read and write in Russian MUCH earlier than even trying to speak it.

So what? Does it mean that we can call a spelling rule a rule which is not a spelling rule? And learners of Russian need good understanding of what is what in Russian. Understanding of how Russians feel their language, how it works. In Spanish there is a spelling rule: e is spelt before s+another consonant at the beginning of words. Do You agree with it? I don't. The correct explanation is: native Spanish speakers cannot pronounce a word which starts at st or sp, they add an "e" at the beginning, which is reflected in spelling.
Princeton Russian course says that the spelling rules about velars are fake. They simply reflect pronunciation.
2 persons have voted this message useful



fabriciocarraro
Hexaglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
Brazil
russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3197 days ago

989 posts - 1454 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French
Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese

 
 Message 221 of 464
03 April 2014 at 11:22pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
fabriciocarraro wrote:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
And you seem to forget that although we would like to, we do not start writing Russian from a base of being fluent in spoken Russian like you are :-)


Cristina is right. It's quite the opposite, I would say. We, foreigners, usually learn how to read and write in Russian MUCH earlier than even trying to speak it.

So what? Does it mean that we can call a spelling rule a rule which is not a spelling rule? And learners of Russian need good understanding of what is what in Russian. Understanding of how Russians feel their language, how it works. In Spanish there is a spelling rule: e is spelt before s+another consonant at the beginning of words. Do You agree with it? I don't. The correct explanation is: native Spanish speakers cannot pronounce a word which starts at st or sp, they add an "e" at the beginning, which is reflected in spelling.
Princeton Russian course says that the spelling rules about velars are fake. They simply reflect pronunciation.


They can be fake and based on pronunciation, that's fine. But do they work? Will you write correctly if you learn them? If so, I can't see why it's a problem. They're just ways to help us learn faster, like learning a Math equation instead of having to do a derivative every time. I can say for myself that they worked.
Foreigners can't and 99,9% of the time won't learn a target language like natives did...
1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3538 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 222 of 464
03 April 2014 at 11:44pm | IP Logged 
fabriciocarraro wrote:

They can be fake and based on pronunciation, that's fine. But do they work? Will you write correctly if you learn them? If so, I can't see why it's a problem.

But does a learner understand well that ши and жи are pronounced like шы and жы, while ки, ги and хи are pronounced like ки, ги and хи.
And in general, does a learner understand how to pronounce everything?
2 persons have voted this message useful



Josquin
Heptaglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3326 days ago

2266 posts - 3992 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish
Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian

 
 Message 223 of 464
03 April 2014 at 11:44pm | IP Logged 
@milesaway: Sure, if you feel like doing both, you can do so!

@Марк: Nitpicking about the word "spelling rule" doesn't help anybody. In fact, this may be a grammatical rule or even a phonological one, but it won't help anybody learn Russian better if we change the name of it. In textbooks and grammars, all the rules concerning velars and sibilants are commonly comprised under the name "spelling rules". It's necessary for learners to know these rules in order to inflect and write Russian words properly. While native speakers can simply rely on what they hear, learners need some help. These rules work, so there's no use in fundamentally questioning them.

EDIT: If the learner reads a good introduction to pronunciation and listens carefully, s/he will learn how to pronounce Russian correctly, but you can't demand perfection right from the beginning.

Edited by Josquin on 03 April 2014 at 11:53pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3538 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 224 of 464
04 April 2014 at 12:11am | IP Logged 
Josquin wrote:
@milesaway: Sure, if you feel like doing both, you can do so!

@Марк: Nitpicking about the word "spelling rule" doesn't help anybody. In fact, this may be a grammatical rule or even a phonological one, but it won't help anybody learn Russian better if we change the name of it. In textbooks and grammars, all the rules concerning velars and sibilants are commonly comprised under the name "spelling rules". It's necessary for learners to know these rules in order to inflect and write Russian words properly. While native speakers can simply rely on what they hear, learners need some help. These rules work, so there's no use in fundamentally questioning them.

EDIT: If the learner reads a good introduction to pronunciation and listens carefully, s/he will learn how to pronounce Russian correctly, but you can't demand perfection right from the beginning.

I don't demand anything. But don't you think that such "spelling rules" confuse learners? Before listening it's important to understand the pronunciation rules. A learner should know that туш and тушь are pronounced in the same way, while стал and сталь differ.


2 persons have voted this message useful



This discussion contains 464 messages over 58 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3281 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2020 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.