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Stephen Krashen, an interview | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6470 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 1 of 52 19 February 2013 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't know if you are aware of this video. Steve Kaufmann interviews Stephen Krashen. It's very interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqVhgSvwWYk&feature=player_em bedded 14 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5355 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 2 of 52 22 February 2013 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have enjoyed seeing some of Krashen's lectures, but it seems like trying to learn an entire language, basically through using graded readers, would be kind of impractical (the materials do not exist, what does exist is mostly extremely tedious) and a bit obsessive (why not use a bit of grammar to help you understand, complemented with a few exercises?).
Krashen didn't really seem to pick up on other Steve's (OS) point about using grammars to help, or about the fact that his web site reduces the threshold for comprehensible input, and although it is a bit tiresome to hear OS banging on about his web site all the time, it did seem like a fair point. Are the LR method, or using bilingual texts in accorance with Krashen's view, or is having the translations cheating? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BaronBill Triglot Senior Member United States HowToLanguages.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4484 days ago 335 posts - 594 votes Speaks: English*, French, German Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Persian | Message 3 of 52 22 February 2013 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think one of the most interesting parts of the interview is when Krashen admits that there is a plethora of input available that is comprehensible but not enjoyable as well as a plethora of input that is enjoyable but not comprehensible.
I think that he hits the nail on the head. I can certainly stand behind his theories of comprehensible input as well as his insistence that this comprehensible input must also be enjoyable in order to be successful. I'm sure this method would be hugely triumphant. The problem is that as adult learners, this stuff doesn't seem to exist. As children, there is an abundance of this material (kids books, tv shows, etc), however, as adults we have more sophisticated pallets when it comes to enjoyable and interesting input. So, all of this begs the question: How does an adult learner find interesting yet comprehensible input? Do we have to make it up ourselves? Doesn't that seem to defeat the purpose? Is it even possible? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5327 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 52 22 February 2013 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | ||
Krashen claims that he loves translations of Star Trek novels. Personally, I've learned an enormous fraction of my French through input. Take this as a personal anecdote from somebody who's still learning French, and not any kind of real insight! 1. Assimil provided comprehensible input through translations and repetition. 2. Native non-fiction provided 75% comprehensible text, which I could tolerate. 3. A few years later, listening to family members speak French to toddlers helped me maintain ~A2. Toddlers get a lot of simple and repetitive input. :-) 4. Reading with popup electronic dictionaries helped me through some more difficult texts. 5. Anki allowed me to repeat low-frequency vocab and grammar in the form of sentences. 6. Talking to French speakers provided tons of comprehensible input. 7. Reading translations of books I know well helped a lot. 8. TV and bandes dessinées provided words together with images. I'm certainly not religious about any kind of input-only approach. I've spent plenty of time speaking and writing, and I occasionally flip through grammar books. But I find that formal study works best when combined with an ocean of comprehensible input. If I get input, study is easy and it pays off quickly. If I neglect input, studying is like pushing a boulder uphill. 15 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5057 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 5 of 52 22 February 2013 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | ||
I certainly agree. One of the issues I see on a regular basis here is people relying way too much on study and not nearly enough on engaging the language, reading, speaking, writing and listening. The native material, even when you're not "ready", reinforces the study and vice-versa. I think the Assimil experiment will bear out that Assimil alone won't get you to where you want to be by itself. Even though, that's stated sometimes, I don't think that it is stated often enough. Also, I think we have to ask ourselves if we are contributing to this by over-hyping Assimil here on the forum. It's a good tool, one of many. Study, by itself is not the begin all and end all of language learning. Too much study, without engaging the language, tends to make one look at a language as a "thing", like a bug under a magnifying glass, and not to look at it as a means of communication. Edited by iguanamon on 23 February 2013 at 12:01am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5225 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 6 of 52 23 February 2013 at 12:24am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree totally with the CI approach because fundamentally it corresponds to how language is acquired by native speakers.
What I would add to this recommendation of massive comprehensible input is the need for corrective feedback. The CI hypothesis is based on the idea that as we assimilate the material we unconsciously (re)construct the grammar of the language and we end up speaking it. This is basically true although, as the video points out, we can use a bit of formal grammar to clarify certain things. The problem, as we all know, is that our native language is a powerful filter that tends to distort our performance. This is where the interaction with native speakers comes in. I have found that at high levels of proficiency, nothing beats working one on one with a professional tutor or teacher who can catch all the things that we cannot catch ourselves. Of course, people do this through language exchanges or through interaction and relationships with native speakers. This I believe is part of the explanation of the poor results, in terms of actual ability to speak, of much language instruction. Real interaction with the language is essential. Edit: I had written my post before reading @iguamon's scintillating contribution. I would like to add my voice to his. Edited by s_allard on 23 February 2013 at 12:28am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 7 of 52 23 February 2013 at 12:27am | IP Logged | ||
Great list. you mentioned TV obviously, but I just want to reiterate on how I really love football (soccer) and how sports provide some of the best visual clues. I also do LR and read books where I know the plot. Edited by Serpent on 23 February 2013 at 12:29am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 8 of 52 23 February 2013 at 12:42am | IP Logged | ||
If I'm not mistaken, you consider it particularly important at the advanced level. Yet look at my older posts (example), and at my newer ones. I was inactive here between 2009 and late 2011, I think. During this time, I received VERY few corrections, at most about five times per year. But I read a lot of fanfiction and wrote quite a bit of it. And when I came back, my English finally matched the "advanced fluency" standard (in my humble opinion). Interestingly, I found myself using words that I just knew I'd seen at this forum... 2-3 years earlier! The general improvement in my English skills activated those words somehow. 6 persons have voted this message useful |
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