|
 |
Possible Catalan independence | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Español |  | |
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5264 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 9 of 22 26 November 2012 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | ||
|
It seems that CiU, the governing party in Catalonia, has shot itself in the foot by calling an election two years early.
They asked for an "exceptional majority" to get a strong mandate behind their plans preparing for independence. In order to get the majority in the Catalan parliament they needed 68 seats. They had 62 before the election. Now they have only 50. Although there is a clear majority in the Catalan parliament in favour of independence, it will be harder for CiU to govern. CiU is a centre-right party. To govern, they need the support of either PSC (a social- democratic party opposing independence), ERC (a left-wing party in favour of independence) or PP (a centre- right/right-wing party heavily opposed to independence). None of them are ideal partners for CiU. A referendum on independence is probably still far away. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4700 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 10 of 22 26 November 2012 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | ||
|
My limited experience in Barcelona was that no one was much interested in my limited
attempts at Catalan, and that a lot of the foreign community didn't even know the basics. I would guess that this would change with independence, that Catalan would take a more central role again. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6514 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 22 26 November 2012 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I just checked my travels, and I have visited Barcelona and other places in Catalunya in 1976, 1078, 1989, 2005, 2009 and 2011. And my experience is that Catalan is stronger than Castellano there, based on the languages I heard in the streets, shops, buses and parks. And you can get Catalan newspapers everywhere. The bookshops do carry a lot of Spanish literature, which is logical given the astronomical number of titles in that language, but I saw no purely Spanish bookshops (although it has to be said that I only have visited a limited number of bookstores in Barcelona plus one in Girona).
My personal experience was quite different from kanewai's: I basically spoke Catalan to everybody and everywhere without asking for permission, and only a small handful of people didn't understand it - although that included the receptionist at my 2011 hotel. Sometimes people looked surprised, but it was not like I was speaking something weird or stigmatized - it was just unexpected that an outsider had bothered to learn their language. In contrast I only heard Valenciano twice in the streets of Valencia plus a few sentences in the tourist information when I asked for the best bookstore in that city because I wanted to buy Valencian/Catalan books. I did hear Catalan at the Aquarium, but probably from 'tourists' from Catalanyua. In Xativa i did hear som Valenciano, but Alicante was totally Spanish-speaking - and the bilingual signs and posters everywhere seemed somewhat pointless. In Palma de Mallorca one elderly man at my hotel spoke in Balearic Catalan to me when I had mentioned my interest in the language, but apart from that I didn't hear any Catalan. I have also visited Andorra, but that was in 2005 just I began to relearn my languages, so I didn't listen for Catalan there - I just used my rusty Spanish. So basically I think Catalan is fairly safe in Catalunya, and that it is taken for granted there - though not from tourists. Outside Catalunya it has lost the battle. But there is a segment of the Spanish speaking population in Barcelona and in the coastal towns who can't or won't deal with the language. I'm not going to specify what I think about these people, and I'm certainly not going to discuss the politically sensitive question of independence here at HTLAL. But as a language learner it is worth learning Catalan as a supplement to Spanish. The area where it is spoken is interesting in itself and easy to reach from other places in Europe, and with a background in Spanish it is not too hard to add Catalan to your language list. Edited by Iversen on 26 November 2012 at 11:37pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| anamsc2 Tetraglot Groupie United States Joined 4370 days ago 85 posts - 186 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Catalan, German Studies: French | Message 12 of 22 27 November 2012 at 3:52am | IP Logged | ||
I have to say, my experiences with Catalan outside of Catalonia have been very different from yours. I lived in both Barcelona and Andorra, and I would say that Catalan is much, much stronger in Andorra (not to say that it's weak in Barcelona, just that it's comparatively doing great in Andorra). In fact, many immigrants to Andorra (not from Spanish-speaking countries) end up learning only Catalan (although any adult Andorran you meet will speak Spanish). I have never been to Mallorca, but I did live with a couple of Mallorcans, and based on what they told me, the language is alive and well there too. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6514 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 22 27 November 2012 at 9:23am | IP Logged | ||
|
Point taken, Ogrim (below).
To anamsc2: No estem en desacord sobre Andorra. No he visitat aquest lloc des del 2005, però he trobat un canal de televisió català andorrà i jo he vist també una quantitat desproporcionada de materials en catalá d'aquest punt minúscul al mapa. Malauradament jo no coneix molt bé la situació lingüistica en les illes Balears - només puc diure que jo personalment no he sentit res dit en català als carrers de Palma o Can Pastilla (on em vaig allotjar en 2011), només en mi hotel, i no vaig sentir tampoc cap català en els llocs turístics que vaig visitar durant la meva visita (com per exemple l'aquari). Deixant de banda les illes Balears, es clar que jo hauria degut escriure "Fora de Catalunya I ANDORRA el català ha perdut la batalla". (We don't disagree about Andorra -I haven't visited the place since 2005, but I know that they have a Catalan TV station there and that there are a disproportionally large amount of Catalan materials from that tiny spot on the map. I don't know much about the situation on Mallorca - I just didn't hear anybody speak Catalan in the streets of Palma or Can Pastilla where I stayed, and I didn't hear it the places I visited (like the aquarium). So leaving the Balearic isles aside I should have written "Outside Catalunya AND ANDORRA it has lost the battle.") Edited by Iversen on 27 November 2012 at 1:19pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4450 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 14 of 22 27 November 2012 at 9:46am | IP Logged | ||
|
Shouldn't this thread really be in another section? Creía que en esta parte del Forum se escribe en español.
Anyway, while I'm here, just a word on the situation in Valencia. It is true that you don't hear much Valencian in the cities. However, there are villages and towns where the language is actively spoken. If you go 30-40 minutes south of the city of Valencia to places like Silla and Sueca, you will hear that it is very much alive and spoken by most of the inhabitants. Maybe it is so because these are not touristy places. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5156 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 15 of 22 27 November 2012 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | ||
|
The Catalans, like any other nationality, deserve their own state where their culture and civilization can flourish.
I'm one of those who believe that more than anything else, a language makes a people, and a minority status within a larger political unit will irrevocably stifle its and their development. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4479 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 16 of 22 28 November 2012 at 1:42am | IP Logged | ||
|
Archipelago of San Andrés, Providencia and Santa Catalina also deserve their own independence and respect for the local English varieties (creole). They were annexed by Colombia and Spanish was imposed on them.
''Before 1960, the population of the islands was almost entirely Raizals, who are an Afro-Caribbean group, Protestant in religion, speaking San Andrés-Providencia Creole. Colombia has promoted the migration of Spanish-speaking mainlanders, with Catholic missions participating since 1947. This policy seems to be an answer to growing discontent within the Raizal community that could strengthen separatist movements; a raizal majority would in this case win a pro-independence referendum but this could be neutralized by outnumbering them with immigrants.'' (Wiki) So, Colombia did to them the same Franco did to Catalans. Edited by Medulin on 28 November 2012 at 1:43am 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
