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Culture and Learning | ||
Tags: Cultural Identity | Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5548 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 25 of 37 31 October 2012 at 12:23am | IP Logged | |||||
The way social behaviour and relationships are expected to work is culture. Of course, it's more fundamental and at the same time more difficult to learn than trivia. Common experiences are culture. They differ in different generations and subcultures, but usually one generation does have at least an inkling of the common experiences shared by another generation, because they were told stories, or watched and observed.
Yet, inter-cultural competence doesn't mean that I understand what being Dutch means to you, it means that I can ask you the right questions so that you feel at ease with sharing some of your experience with me, and exchanging how our experiences were similar, and how they were different. Other topics to talk about tend to evolve from getting to know another individual better, not from stereotyping them better. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5314 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 26 of 37 31 October 2012 at 2:08am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm a native English speaker who lives in the US. Until I read this thread, I knew that (1) somebody named "Justin Bieber" or something like that existed, and (2) that he might be popular musician or something like that—but he might also be an actor or some inexplicably famous person like Paris Hilton. I also have no idea who the Kardashians are, though I doubt they're an alien race on Star Trek, which was my first guess. I have finally discovered that Lady Gaga exists, but only because Weird Al made a parody of her, and her agent was a jerk about it. I've heard maybe two of her songs, both of which were fairly catchy. And every few years, I discover a popular film that everybody saw 20 years ago, and finally get around to enjoying it. For example, I think I first watched Dirty Dancing in 2002. If you asked my friends about me, they might say something like, "Yeah, he can be pretty ignorant about pop culture." But none of my them would say that I'm not a fluent speaker of English. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| nimchimpsky Diglot Groupie Netherlands Joined 5393 days ago 73 posts - 108 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English | Message 27 of 37 31 October 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged | |||||
Stereotyping? What a narrow view of culture. Knowing your culture doesn't mean that you accept its values uncritically but you have to know it in order to change it. Over time the fringes can become mainstream. I also think you still underestimate the need for general topics to talk about. My Sister-In-Law is Hungarian and she likes to learn everything about Dutch politics so that she can join in conversations at parties. Knowing a culture enables you to speak not just to a few but to the entire country. However, it is of course a legitimate goal to be able to speak fluently about a specific subject but cultural knowledge can be truly enriching for learners. By the way, I am using a very broad definition of culture. To me it is any unit of information native speakers assume you know which enables you to understand messages intended for a general audience. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4489 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 28 of 37 31 October 2012 at 10:30am | IP Logged | |||||
I think this says more about the person than the culture really. If you've got nowt worth mentioning, methinks that's a different problem to solve (the only question remains why you would speak seven languages in that case - my only hypothesis is to pick up foreign chicks). Edited by tarvos on 31 October 2012 at 10:31am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| aokoye Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5323 days ago 235 posts - 453 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, Norwegian, Japanese | Message 29 of 37 31 October 2012 at 11:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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Even without pinning down an agreed upon meaning of culture my responce to the origional question would
be no, you don't need to know the culture to be "fluent" in the language. I say this primarily becuase there isn't just one univeral culture per language, especially in languages that are spoken in any different countries or along vast swaths of areas. I am fluent in English (it's my first language) and yet I know next to nothing about Australian culture despite the fact that English is the default language of Australia (to the demise of Maori language). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5044 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 30 of 37 31 October 2012 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
Maori is a language of the native Maori peoples in New Zealand, not Australia. Case in point. Edited by iguanamon on 31 October 2012 at 1:01pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| nimchimpsky Diglot Groupie Netherlands Joined 5393 days ago 73 posts - 108 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English | Message 31 of 37 31 October 2012 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
In that case you are not fluent in Australian English. My Grandmother is not fluent anymore in modern Dutch due to cultural changes. That's because she doesn't share the same cultural assumptions most natives take for granted. When I say to her: 'I'm a postman' she thinks I have a high status and well paid job, which it used to be when she was young, but nowadays it's a low status and poorly paid job. So she gets a totally wrong impression of me when I say that I'm postman. I can of course explain all this but when I have to give lengthy explanations and adapt my speech I am no longer speaking to a native but to a learner. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4489 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 32 of 37 31 October 2012 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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That has nothing to do with fluency but with the Zeitgeist changing. Edited by tarvos on 31 October 2012 at 4:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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