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Kanji method: Heisig/SRS free | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5593 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 1 of 9 04 April 2012 at 7:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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I mentioned in a different
thread about reading Japanese that I didn't use either Heisig or an SRS to learn kanji and was asked how I did it. Here's my answer. Motivation I learned Japanese with a couple goals and motivations in mind. One, living in Tokyo I had a need and desire to communicate with and participate in Japanese society, from ordering a meal to making friends. Two, I enjoy reading and wanted to be able to enjoy Japanese literature. Three, I wanted to improve my job perspectives. In all cases, the ability to read and write at an adult level was a necessity. Results I tried a couple of different methods but in the end I predominately used the following method. I started this method with a knowledge of around 150 kanji and now know enough to pass the JLPT1級, score J2 on the Business Japanese Test (BJT), and work in Japanese as an engineer in a Japanese company. I don't know how many that actually is, but I would guess a little more than 2000. Method My method requires a pen, paper, and a source of kanji-based vocabulary. To start, I recommend this book, the 日本語能力試 験２級漢字単語ドリル, as it is organized largely by phonetic components, minimizes English, provides example sentences, and has coverable furigana. I later used 完全マスター1級漢字 which is pretty bad on its own, but at that stage (advanced learner), all I really needed as a list. ***************************************************** Step 1: Write a vocab word three times in a column. Practice the pronunciation (silently or out loud) each time you write it. It will look something like this:
Step 2: Repeat Step 1 to the right of the first column. Do this for ten or so words.
Step 3: Going left to right (from first written to last) and write each word under its respective column, against practicing the pronunciation.
Step 4: Cover the 10 columns of four. Again, from left to right, write all ten words from memory.
Step 5: Do something else. Step 6: An indeterminate time later, write all ten words from memory. Do not check any of them until you have written all ten or have given up.
Step 7: Score yourself. Count a word correct only if you have also written the kanji correctly. (If you want, give yourself a half point if you got 1 or more kanji in the word correct) I don't have any set target, but I usually get 80% or 90% before moving on.
Step 8: Write all the missed words down and mark them (use a different color or circle them) so you can see later which words gave you a hard time. If you have also forgotten the meaning, take a look at the source or an example sentence to remind yourself.
Step 9: Go to Step 1 (ten new words) or Step 5 (wait and practice again). Step 10: Each additional time you test yourself, do all the words you have done. I have done up to around 280 words at one time, though I commonly reset around 90 - 120 depending on the text I am working from (i.e., the end of a page or section), though I sometimes continued to test myself on one list while I start another. ***************************************************** Perceived benefits of this method 1) It's portable and rather quick. It can be done on the train and new words can be added in around 5 minutes. 2) Learning words allows me to immediately use what I learn. I also don't learn superfluous readings. 3) Recall is done with as few crutches as possible. There are no prompts other than the other words in the list*. You either remember the word and kanji or you don't; there is no in-between, no "Well, I remember the overall meaning of the example sentence..." *Although I naturally tend to remember things in order, when testing myself I did not hold myself to a specific order, essentially writing words as they came to me. 4) It is a limited form of active output. Additionally, I actually do need to handwrite kanji at work so this training worked on multiple levels. About other methods I wrote a bit in an old thread about mnemonics and learning kanji. I think there is some common ground between the various popular methods but enough difference that most long time learners have their personal preference. I'm writing this more for people who are starting out and undecided than those who are already on their way. Why I don't use Heisig: Because I want to know words, not kanji. Because I don't need to memorize stories in English to remember simple shapes. Because I can figure out basic patterns (e.g., radicals) on my own and remember them better that way. Because other books/resources are free or much cheaper. Why I don't use SRS software: Because it's boring. Because I don't study at home in front of a computer (and there were no smart phones when I started studying Japanese). Because I read extensively and reading is a natural repetition system. Because flash cards always provide a prompt, which I see as a crutch. EDIT: I played around with the URL tags and they work for me... let's hope they work for everybody. Edited by ericspinelli on 04 April 2012 at 7:30am 13 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4511 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 2 of 9 04 April 2012 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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"living in Tokyo"
There you have your reason why SRS was not necessary. You'd encounter all the Kanji very often anyways. :) I also agree, the need to be literate due to be situated in your TL's country creates additional motivation. However, someone living in the country is in a whole different situation. Maybe even more so for Japanese. Your method may be quite good actually, but I'm not sure it will work for me. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4435 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 3 of 9 04 April 2012 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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A few questions.
1) You mentioned the use of a book organizing its vocabulary along phonetic components. This shows in your particular example, using compounds either containing 生, or another character containing it as a phonetic. Would you also apply this method on words that you simply encountered in a regular text that you had been reading? 2) You mentioned that you reset your list after about 100 words or so, but sometimes keep older ones around for doing reviews. Do you also just 'throw them away' at some point? And if so, would you reuse a particular word for a later list if you found you had forgotten about it upon another encounter? 3) Finally, why 10 words? For example, Iversen advocates using 5 to 7 words for his word list method, motivated, if I'm not mistaken, by typical working memory capacity. (Not sure if this applies to Japanese, however, seeing as the Kanji add a whole lot more information to memorize besides pronunciation.) Overall, I very much like the idea. I do still use physical flashcards for testing myself on Hanzi-based vocabulary in Mandarin, although I could see myself dropping them once I'm at a higher level of proficiency. Edited by Maux on 04 April 2012 at 9:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Thuan Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6740 days ago 133 posts - 156 votes Speaks: Vietnamese, German*, English Studies: French, Japanese, Romanian, Swedish, Mandarin | Message 4 of 9 04 April 2012 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
How long did your 280 word session take? Reminds me of Iversen's wordlist. I just bought a Japanese dictionary, so I'm going to give this method a try over the weekend. Do you review your words at all, or do they stay in your long-term memory after just one intense study session? Iversen mentioned that he reviews his word lists just twice (the day after and a week later). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5593 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 5 of 9 05 April 2012 at 2:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Reading novels did far more to enhance my exposure to kanji than simply living here. The effect wasn't zero but the real effect of being in-country was better conversation skills. Books aren't bound by country borders; I think you could do this anywhere.
In the beginning I didn't add words from reading. Later I already had a good idea of phonetic components and didn't really think about it.
I stopped testing myself on older sets after a while. By the time you've added 100 words, you've tested the first set of 10 at least ten times, the second set nine, and so on. There comes a point where further testing doesn't add enough value to continue. Some words get more study than others but this only resulted in marginal loss.
I've done up to 20 at a time but it's not sustainable. It's easier to do two sets of about 10. I could comfortably handle about 80 words a week so about 10 at a time made sense, but I regularly did 8 to 12 depending on how the words were organized in the texts I used.
To learn the words took a couple weeks. To test them all (write them all from memory), about 10-15mins. I can't be more exact than that because this was over five years ago.
There were no intense study sessions. I studied mostly while on the train or waiting for a bus. Step 5 (do something else) usually meant going to work, meeting a friend, eating a sandwich, or pretty much anything but studying kanji. This method didn't start as a set of rules, with specific steps to be done at specific times. I studied when I felt like it and had the time. Although I reviewed every time I added new words, that was probably the only constant. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Thuan Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6740 days ago 133 posts - 156 votes Speaks: Vietnamese, German*, English Studies: French, Japanese, Romanian, Swedish, Mandarin | Message 6 of 9 05 April 2012 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Tested the method twice in since yesterday and I'm having trouble getting it right. Reason may be that I didn't clearly understand the method.
The major problem for me is the time it takes me to do the method. Just going through step 1 and 2 takes me 12-15 minutes. Reviewing and practising the ten words until I can write them out of my head without prompts takes another few minutes. Step 6 (writing all ten words from memory) did bring just mediocre results. I scored 8/10 on the first list and just 6/10 on the second. I will give it another try later on. Another point that I don't really understand in your system is how you review older lists without prompts. I can review yesterday's list now, but with 10-28 lists a week later? Would love to hear more details about your review process. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Maux Diglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4435 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 7 of 9 05 April 2012 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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After rereading, I have another question. When I try to remember a list of 6 words, recalling pronunciation,
meanings and the (often new) characters (going through the strokes before the mind's eye), I find that this already puts mental strain and I need a quiet environment to concentrate. But if I'm not mistaken, you're saying that you can recall the writing, readings and meanings of the last 100 words that you learned with high retention, while traveling using public transport. In addition, you report that you don't consider this an intensive exercise. I confess, I'm a bit jealous. Has it always been this easy for you, or did it come through lots of practice? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5593 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 8 of 9 06 April 2012 at 7:52am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Perhaps 5 minutes was a bit of an exaggeration. If you already know the meaning (i.e., you are simply learning the kanji) I think 5 - 10 minutes should be enough. Learning new words and looking up their meanings does add some time. I think just staring at the list and trying to remember them, however, is a waste of time.
The second time you test yourself you should be testing all 20 words. When you miss words, make sure to write them afterwords (Step 8). If you feel you really don't know the words/kanji, say/write them a couple more times and review your text or example sentences, then test yourself again later but before moving on to words 21 - 30.
If by lists you mean sets of 10, you should be able to remember them because you write all of them each time you test (Step 10). For example, when I test myself on words 71 - 80, I also test words 1 - 70 as well. After I choose to restart after learning 80 words, I will learn new words and occasionally do the previous list of 80 (perhaps when I have done 60 or 80 new words, therefore testing 140 - 160 words at one time). Once I remember a few words from the previous set, they usually all come back (at around 90% retention); there is no way to get rid of any and all context/prompts. In the meantime, you should be continuing your other Japanese studies and surely some of the words/kanji you learn will pop up. You should be able to understand them with the benefit of context.
That's why I write them with pen and paper and listen to music using earphones to block out distractions.
I don't consider learning 10 words a day intensive. And although your list keeps growing, you keep reviewing older words. Though you may be testing 100 items, only 10 of them are new. Do I still forget sometimes? Sure. I still forget how to spell words in English, too. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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