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Hong Kong cripple writing | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5102 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes  Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 17 of 22 14 February 2012 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Because the word "madman" is bad? I can take that back. (What's a better word?) And the sentence saying he wasn't an artist. That was based on my definition of an artist, maybe it's wrong. To me, a one-month old baby who happens to spill milk into a beautiful shape is not an artist. To me, an artist is someone who deliberately creates art. Maybe it's different elsewhere such that I'm insulting the baby and the Kowloon King.
So this is all I'll say now to be safe: He didn't mean to create art. Kowloon King was a living person writing on the street, so if you're a HKer my age or older, he's not just a wiki page, but a real person you see once in a while on the street. In any case, I didn't mean to belittle the King. I meant to inform you's of (this side of) the facts as a local. You don't have to believe me if you prefer not to. Edited by smallwhite on 14 February 2012 at 2:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| SueK Groupie United States Joined 4545 days ago 77 posts - 133 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 18 of 22 16 February 2012 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I went back to the same area again and saw a woman writing on a large tarpish thing with sand. She would pick up a handful of sand and pour it into characters.
This time, it was very obvious that at the end she would pick up the canvas and her work would be gone. Her work was not as beautiful and less captivating to watch, both because of the ease at which she did it and more simplistic result. The man would cut pieces of chalk for sharp edges to perfect each character, the woman earased one charcter, but seemed to aim at correct verses appealing. The idea that the mans work from the other night may have been earased at the end of the night, so he could re-use his canvas, makes me admire him all the more. All the work and care he put into it! There were several other street performers of different types on this street the second night, so I suspect the writing to be some sort of performance art. @Samllwhite. If you create something that wasn't inteded to be art, is it art? I have no idea! Maybe it's the intent to create (verses the baby's accident) that makes the difference, or maybe people are anxious to be generous to a tortured soul. Personally, I think there's something in that he was trying to communicate with his writings, but that's just an opinion too, and I have to admit to myself I might feel differently if I was able to read the result and it was just 'trash talk'. In either case, thanks for the local perspective! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6376 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 19 of 22 16 February 2012 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
I've seen the chalk-writing beggar thing several times in Mainland China, though not in HK. Since calligraphy is a respected art form in the Chinese tradition, it's pretty much like being a street musician. Instead of only trying to look miserable, the beggar creates something beautiful for passers-by to look at, which in the eyes of many elevates them from a freeloader to someone who works for their money, thus inviting more and bigger donations. Writing on the pavement is an old phenomenon, usually done as a way to practice calligraphy. Traditionally, calligraphy students and masters would use a brush and water to create an ephemeral artwork that lasts for only a few minutes before it disappears. Some people read some buddhist philosophy into this, of creating an impermanent artwork, of the act of creating it being more important than the artwork itself, but for most practitioners it's probably simply a way of practicing without needing to use up a lot of paper. There are special papers one can buy for practicing calligraphy, too, that allows you to write clear characters with water and then reuse the paper after it's dried. Here's a video of water calligraphy practice Edited by Ari on 16 February 2012 at 12:48pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| zenmonkey Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6346 days ago 803 posts - 1119 votes 1 sounds Speaks: EnglishC2*, Spanish*, French, German Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew | Message 20 of 22 16 February 2012 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is where we disagree - at the very least KK is "found art" and has its art "identity" from the designation placed upon it by the community and those around him. His work has been in galleries and sold as art. The idea that his commonplace grafitti challenges the community and creates a impact, arousing questions, values or sensibilities is what creates the distinction between what was considered art as opposed to not art. His work was placed on a real stage - not just the public passageway, and as found art it can be considerd to have prompted some sort of philosophical reflection in the observer. Proofs:
The tools he used are of a classical repertoire of artists: 
the nature of the transactions he made allowed for them to be displayed in galleries 
He was more aware than some baby in the use of his "canvas" and impact of the emotional weight of his message 
The reason I believe that is a valid inquiry for the site, is that the use of language, and language learning obviously can have an impact on this type of art. I respect that you might not like his work, or even consider it art but I invite you to reflect on this and perhaps see the artistry in the common created object. He's not a wikipage for me either, I saw his work in 2003 in ... Italy and again while visiting HK. Edited by zenmonkey on 16 February 2012 at 1:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5102 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 21 of 22 16 February 2012 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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OK, I forgot that since I think the 90s, people discovered the financial potential in the King's works, and got him writing for money. Yes, he was an artist since then even by my narrow definition, definitely.
When I said "He was a madman writing on walls. He didn't mean to create art" I meant before the 90s when he was writing on the streets. He was writing for people to read. I was talking about his intentions, so how the audience sees and values his work afterwards I believe is another matter, another matter that I'm not familiar with so I'll just let you elaborate on it. Edited by smallwhite on 16 February 2012 at 8:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| vientito Senior Member Canada Joined 6132 days ago 212 posts - 281 votes | Message 22 of 22 18 February 2012 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Isn't Vincent van Gogh considered by some as a madman as well?
There's a very fine line between a genius and a madman. Some of those protagonists in chinese martial arts fiction often appear to be mad around their peers. As long as they are not violent and pose danger to the public, I am fine with that. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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