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Advancing Korean, Year 5/6: TAC15 東亞 | ||
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| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4660 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes  Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 129 of 344 19 December 2012 at 12:36am | IP Logged |
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Thank you, Élan! I'm also very happy that you joined the Team with Persian! I'll definitely get back to your offer when I have questions - I'm sure that's going to happen as soon as I dive into the grammar and expressions. For now I think Persian sounds quite beautiful and I'm surprised how few people are learning it compared to its usefulness.
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| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4660 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 130 of 344 23 December 2012 at 11:26pm | IP Logged |
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Sunday, 23rd of December
new vocabulary from list: 26 new audio cards: 5 extensive reading: 28 pages of 내 마음손의 보배 (대행선사의 가르침) intensive reading: 4 pages of 나는 나를 파괴할 권리가 있다, 1 news report listening: 2 episodes of 드라마의 제왕, 1 news report writing: 2 400-character essays I didn't have time to write subtitles the past two weeks, but this week I once again subbed 1/3 of an episode of 드라마의 제왕. I was surprised to see my subbing percentage at 89%-90%. Either this part was easier, or I got more comfortable with the actors' pronunciation and the writing. Ever since I started 나나파권, I've noticed that I'm inferring more meanings from Hanja roots, so maybe the improved percentage also indicates slightly improved skill. It seems like it's a good idea to watch some parts of a drama closely to acquire frequent words. I'm happy with the percentage of intensive listening/subbing I'm doing compared to the percentage of extensive listening. This week 요즘 북한은 also seemed easier. Might be luck, but with similar topics and repeated phrases I suppose I've gotten more used to this new type of text. I also attended another Korean meeting and had the opportunity for a short conversation, which felt great. It was okay, but I've noticed that I still need too much time to formulate sentences. I need more practice. I had already written one essay and the meeting inspired me to write a second one, because the atmosphere was so nice. I've noticed a curious phenomenon - whenever I write an essay in Korean I'm basically using lots of constructions from my audio sentence deck. I just piece them together differently. This is the only way I can produce less unnatural sounding Korean. I really can't recommend the audio sentence method enough. I got only two corrections on the essay, which surprised me a lot (maybe the poster didn't correct all mistakes :D). 오늘은 또다시 한독모임에 참가했어요. 느낌이 역시 너무 좋았어요. 맛있는 한식을 먹으면서 여러 가지 이야기를 나누게 되었어요. 한국사람들을 만날 땐 언제나 상당히 따뜻한 분위기를 느껴요. 제가 한국문화하고 한국말에 관심이 있는 이유들 중 하나입니다. 잘 설명할 수 없지만 대체로 말하면 외국인들 만날 때마다 그들이 자라온 문화에 따라 분위기 조금 다르기도 해요. 한국인들은 보통 새롭게 만나는 사람들에게 관심이 보여 주고 배려를 잘 하는 편이라고 생각해요. 그래서 마음이 너무 편안해져요. 또한 한국인들 사이에 처음 만났을 때도 가족적인 분위기가 쉽게 생길 수 있을 것 같다고 생각해요. 연상의 분들이 나이가 더 어린 사람들을 자식같이 돌보고 연하의 사람들이 연장자께 경의를 표하죠. 참으로 정답게 느껴요. 독일 사회는 좀 냉정하니까 이런 기분이 드는 건가요? Last but not least, Merry Christmas everyone! 메리 크리스마스! Edited by druckfehler on 23 December 2012 at 11:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Leurre Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5217 days ago 219 posts - 372 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Korean, Haitian Creole, SpanishC2 Studies: Japanese | Message 131 of 344 24 December 2012 at 2:39am | IP Logged |
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첨삭을 부탁한 거 아니지만 감히 한두 가지 고치자면 (I put my suggested changes right in
the sentence/phrase in bold) -오늘은 또다시 한독모임에 참석했어요. ->참석 = 나는 그 자리에 갔다/ 참가 = 가지 않아도 동참함으로써 기여한다는 뜻임 -맛있는 한식을 먹으면서 여러 가지 이야기를 나누었어요 -> 음 설명하기가 쉽지 않지만 'XX하게 됐다'는 건, 그 결과에 달하게 된 어떤 _과정_을 강조 함 -한국사람들을 만날 땐 언제나 상당히 따뜻한 분위기를 느껴요.(X) ->분위기를 느낀다는 게 잘 안 쓰이고 어감이 좀 다름. '분위기를 즐기다' '분위기 조성' 등 이 쓰이지만. -저는 한국문화하고 한국말에 관심이 있는 이유 중 하나입니다. -잘 설명할 수 없지만 대체로 말하면 저는 외국인들을 만날 때마다 그들이 자라온 문화에 따라 분위기가 다르다는 것을 느껴요 ->주술구조상 조금 바꿨음 -한국인들은 보통 새로 만나는 사람들에게 관심을 보여 주고 배려를 잘 하는 편이라고 생 각 해요. -또한 한국인들 사이에도 초면에도 쉽게 친해질 수 있을 것이라고 생각해요 ->좀 더 자연스러운 것 같아서 이렇게 고쳐봄. -나이가 있으신 분들이/ 연세가 있으신 분들이/ 나이 많은 분들이 더 어린 사람들을 자식 같 이 돌보고 나이 더 어린 사람들은 연장자께 경의를 표하죠. ->여기서 주의: '돌 본다'는 말은 상대가 다치거나, 매우 어리거나, 무슨 신체적 심리적 장애 가 있을 때 쓰는 말이라는 것~ 여기서 문맥상 적절하지 않다는 건데, 대신 '챙겨준다'는 말이 훨씬 자연스럽고 문장 앞뒤가 맞는 표현인 듯 함 -참으로 정답게 느껴져요 -독일 사회는 좀 냉정해서 이런 기분이 드는 건가요? -> 냉정하다는 말은 괜찮긴한데, 여기서 살짝 부정적인 어감이 들어가는 '과도하게 냉정해 서', '차가워서' 등이 더 적절할 것 같음 Edited by Leurre on 24 December 2012 at 2:44am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4660 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 132 of 344 26 December 2012 at 3:10am | IP Logged |
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고쳐 주셔서 정말 고마워요! 당연히 좋아요. 다음엔 부탁할게요 ^^ You're an inspiration :)
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| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4660 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 133 of 344 30 December 2012 at 6:28pm | IP Logged |
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Sunday, 30th of December - last week!
extensive reading: 13 pages of 내 마음속의 보배, 2 news articles semi-intensive reading: 46 pages of 나는 나를 파괴할 권리가 있다 listening: 2 episodes of 드라마의 제왕, 7 podcasts I finished two books this week: 내 마음속의 보배 and 나는 나를 파괴할 권리가 있다 (I have linked to the reviews on my blog). 나나파권 was my first real Korean novel and I would say that I read it with "relative fluency", mostly reading 10 or more pages at a time, although with quite a few dictionary lookups once I got interested in the story. So I'm hereby declaring TAC 2012 a success! I reached both goals I set myself at the beginning of the year. Looks like I can no longer watch 요즘 북한은. The stream is appallingly slow. I still read this week's broadcast transcript, though. It's really a pity... I was just starting to understand more. However, I have found a new source of great listening material. I subscribed to several Korean podcasts on iTunes. At the beginning it was difficult to understand anything, but after listening to a couple of podcasts it has become a little easier to stay concentrated. I don't understand everything by far and sometimes I have to listen to a part 2-3 times to understand what it's about, but I understand enough to enjoy the podcast. I think this is great listening practice, because it's more natural speech than found in dramas or TTMIK Iyagi lessons. FM 음악 도시 성시경입니다: This is actually a daily two-hour radio broadcast by a well-known ballad singer. The songs are cut short on iTunes (probably copyright issues), but I don't really care. I'm more interested in the talking anyway. I really like the beginning of this show, where Sung Shi-Kyung talks about what seems to be a random topic (how toothpaste became popular, how to enjoy something you have to do but don't like, how some people treat their memories like a stain on their clothes). From the two podcasts I've listened to this is followed by talking with a guest and finally Sung Shi-Kyung reads letters and comments from his listeners. I like his soothing voice, the show is perfect for winding down before going to bed. 장기하의 대단한 라디오: Another well-known musician, doing a daily two-hour radio broadcast. I really like the concept of this show, it's very well-structured from what I can tell. Jang Ki-Ha also usually seems to have guests and there's a lot of interaction with his listeners. The questions are quite interesting, in the first podcast I listened to he played (some strange) oldies and asked "What is your reaction to this song?". On the same show he asked his listeners to think about which song they would like to sing, for whom and why. On the second show he started with "What's the thing you can make best with your hands?", Then he talked with the guests and listeners about being addicted to one's smartphone and about people who make a fuss unnecessarily (like downplaying their abilities). This show is really quite interesting and funny. 달을 품은 토끼: This podcast is absolutely adorable. I only listened to one episode so far, but it looks like these are two girls who record music and also talk about music and life in general. On December 24 they talked about how people are celebrating Christmas, read listeners' comments from their facebook page and introduced their album of Christmas songs. I like this podcast a lot because it feels like talking to a group of friends, they are funny and sound like they're having a blast. I'm looking forward to the next episode - looks like they do approx. 1 podcast per week. 전진희의 음악일기: Another weekly podcast. This is finally a music podcast that doesn't usually cut the music short. It introduces mostly classical, but also jazz and world music. Jeon Jin-Hee seems to be a violinist who wants to introduce not-so-well-known classical music. I've decided to listen to this mostly for the music, but it's nice to have it introduced in Korean. I like how Jeon Jin-Hee focusses on the feelings inside the music in her comments and she has a nice, soothing voice. Her facebook page. 여러분께서 즐겁고 편안한 연말을 보내시길 바랍니다 ^^ Edited by druckfehler on 30 December 2012 at 7:05pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4660 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 134 of 344 30 December 2012 at 8:14pm | IP Logged |
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Goals: Success! pass TOPIK level 4 = high Intermediate (until late October) I passed a theoretical TOPIK test for level 4 in October (I would have taken the official one as planned, but found out it would only be offered in April). I still hesitate to call myself "high Intermediate", mostly because my active skills are lagging behind and I still don't know enough words (I suppose I know around 5000 or 6000 to varying degrees). read a book in Korean with relative fluency (until end of 2012) I also managed to "read a book in Korean with relative fluency". I was hesitant to count children's books, but now that I finished both a Buddhist pamphlet and a novel without too much difficulty I feel like I have definitely met this ambitious goal. I'm very happy with my progress, considering that I started with a vocabulary of around 2000 words, couldn't understand any native materials and had to rely on people dumbing down their speech phenomenally to understand them. Details Vocabulary Study / Anki: I started using Anki this year. I made four different decks with both single words and sentences and studied a total of 1853 Anki facts. I like my deck of audio sentence cards best (a great method for both studying new words and improving listening comprehension), followed by the deck of sentences with missing nouns and pictures. While Anki is great for memorising new words, I must say that after a year of (almost) faithful daily reviewing I'm a bit sick of it. Listening: I watched countless dramas and stopped watching them subbed halfway through the year, which was difficult at first but a very good decision. Together with helping to translate some of them, this probably did the most for improving my listening comprehension and also helped me to learn new words. Before taking the leap to watch without subs I listened to some Iyagi lessons and Korean Language Adventure lessons with scripts. I guess this helped a lot as well. I was surprised to find out that I can actually enjoy radio programs in Korean now. Reading: I've also finally taken the plunge to read books in Korean. I started with children's books in spring and worked my way up to a novel that I finished in December. In total I read 7 books. Besides that I have read quite a lot of random blog entries and news articles, just trying to understand what I could. By now it feels okay to google something in Korean or use the Korean wikipedia and reading books is partly hard work, partly pleasure. Grammar: While I didn't do any real grammar study, I managed to assimilate quite a few patterns so well that I use them in my writing now and I know many others well enough to understand what they mean when I read them. Although this has worked well, grammar is definitely something I want to focus on before finally sitting the Intermediate TOPIK in April. Speaking & Writing: Compared to all the passive exposure, I didn't do that much active practice. For the first half of the year I had a language tandem, which helped not to completely forget how to speak, but mostly frustrated me because there was so much I couldn't say. Now that I know more, I want to try again in 2013. Text chatting seems like a good preparation. I also wrote a couple of essays throughout the year and while I'd say they didn't turn out all too badly, this is still an area I need to focus on for TOPIK. My language is still quite awkward and writing takes me a little too long. Things I Learned about Language Study - By sticking with a language every day and making it part of my life I can make a lot of progress, even when studying on my own and without being in a country where the target language is spoken. - I need lots of variety. Actually, this is probably one of the reasons why I'm more successful with language study than with studying other subjects. I can (almost) stick to routine with Anki and watching TV (which is study, but more than that it's also relaxation). For everything else I need variety. I've tried many methods this year and with every one of them I made progress. - There is a certain level of challenging which is the most effective for improving language skills. That level lies a little above my discomfort threshold (and my discomfort threshold for foreign languages is pretty high). Once a certain material becomes easy enough that I can happily use it for an hour or more the learning curve is going to be flatter. - There's a period of "getting used to" with every new drama and book, so at first it seems more difficult than it should. Once I get through that period, I'm back to my usual level - and with every new book/drama it improves a little. Actually, there is more than one "reading" or "listening" skill - every type of media requires slightly different skills and vocabulary. Congratulations to everyone who survived TAC 2012 and thanks to the Asian team for encouraging me! Edited by druckfehler on 31 December 2012 at 1:55am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 4922 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 135 of 344 30 December 2012 at 8:30pm | IP Logged |
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Congratulations, druckfehler! You seem to have achieved a lot! I can very much relate to your observations of what
works for you in language study, especially the point about variety and the getting-used-to-period with every new book (or rather author). Good luck with next year's TAC :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4470 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 136 of 344 30 December 2012 at 9:19pm | IP Logged |
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Congrats druckfehler! I guess we can only wish you (and ourselves) to be able to come up with such a conclusion again next year! :)
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