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Speaking a Foreign Language in a Group | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| allen Newbie United States Joined 4896 days ago 23 posts - 73 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Korean, Thai | Message 17 of 46 18 December 2011 at 6:40am | IP Logged | ||
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Unless their English is at a very high level, it's just not going to be the same. I can't
imagine forcing 7 other people to converse in a non-native language for one other person at a social event. It depends on how good their English is, but unless everyone is near- native it's just going to make everyone uncomfortable and pretty much ruin any dinner party. If nobody even said a single word to you then I would consider that strange and rude. But beyond a five minute conversation beyond "Hi, what's your name" "What do you do" I wouldn't expect much more. If it were me, I would invite a buddy or just not go. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Darya0Khoshki Triglot Groupie United States Joined 4880 days ago 71 posts - 91 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Iraqi) Studies: Persian | Message 18 of 46 18 December 2011 at 7:16am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with Allen ... if it's not their first language, they aren't going to want to to speak it with each other.
However, I have this problem with Assyrians in Iraq. They have their own language, but they also speak Arabic at a native level - some of the less educated ones might be described as near-native, but in any case, it's almost like their first language. I have a lot of Assyrian friends but I feel like I have to hang out with them only one-on-one because if I get myself in a big group of Assyrians I may as well be a piece of furniture. I visited an Assyrian house once and I tried as best I could to interject but the conversation would always go back to Assyrian after a brief answer to me. The funny thing was after toughing out this torture for 6 hours, they got really offended that I wanted to go home. Ha, ha! Sometimes I'm not sure if people are just clueless. I KNOW they would be bored silly if I invited them over to a gathering of English speakers and no one really tried to include them and they just sat their not understanding anything. I think it's probably just a lack of experience or a blind spot people have. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4821 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 19 of 46 18 December 2011 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Whether they are being consciously rude or just lazy doesn't matter. They are being rude. I don't agree that you cannot expect them to speak English when you are there. If they are all proficient in it, there is no obstacle and they still have tons of other opportunities to speak their language among themselves. This way, they are just showing you that you are not important. That is "ok" in a group of friends of your girlfriend. But your girlfriend should definitely care. Just telling them "Hey, my boyfriend thinks you are rude" is probably not enough. Hard to tell what she "should" do. Perhaps translate for you at the meetings to show that you are important to her more than fluency of whole conversation? Or just accept that you are not coming this time?
If I were you, I would apologize from visiting next time and a few more occassions. The "friends" might not notice but the one important person should. And I would start to study the language. Not necessarily to fit in but firstly it would be a step towards the person I love. Secondly to understand. And eventually to show them that conversation in a foreign language is not as a big deal as they are thinking and that it wouldn't have hurt them had they tried. Or alternatively to understand well and respond in English. By the way what is the foreign language? If it is a european one, you could make a huge progress in listening comprehension soon. But if it is a real hard one, that I understand you are not that eager to take such a commitment. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4938 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 20 of 46 18 December 2011 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with allen. I also think that it is possible that those 7 people living in a
country in which English is the main language and sharing other native language may want to use the possibility of speaking their own language. They also may have near native command of English but that does not change the fact that they want to speak their native language with their friends because that might be one of the rare occasions when they are not required (like in a formal setting) to speak English. You are 1/8 of their group and they might be aware that they are rude but still carry on speaking in their language because this freedom of expressing themselves is too precious to them. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5772 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 21 of 46 18 December 2011 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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If that dinner party was a party of four, then I think it would be obvious that everyone should speak English. If it was a party of 20, I also think it would be obvious that 19 people should not have to switch languages to cater to the one person who doesn't understand. A party of eight however is an awkward middle size. However I think it is leaning to the side of "too many people to switch".
When I was younger, I somehow found myself in a group of friends that was almost exclusively Vietnamese. They all seemed to somehow lack knowledge of the basic etiquette that you shouldn't needlessly exclude someone from conversation by using a language not shared by everyone. When we were a group of say six or more people, I didn't mind that they spoke Vietnamese. I didn't want to be a party pooper. But when we were a group of three or four people, and they insisted on speaking Vietnamese among each other, I found it incredibly rude and irritating. I insist that they didn't do this out of ill intention, but rather out of a hole in their etiquette education. Which is why I put up with it in the first place. From the beginning I tried to learn Vietnamese, but quickly became very frustrated because of the insanely difficult pronunciation which resulted in me rarely being understood despite my best efforts. However over time I did make some modest progress with listening comprehension. And out a sincere desire to learn, but even more to break up the flow of these rude conversations happening around me, I eventually developed the tactic of constantly badgering my friends with questions about what I was hearing. I would listen intently to what was being said, and whenever I heard a word or word cluster repeated, I would ask for the meaning. And usually they were very willing to answer my questions. And sure enough, this tactic also had the effect of raising consciousness among them of the excluding effect their Vietnamese conversations had, and led to more and more English being spoken when I was around. I accumulated a small but useful inventory of Vietnamese vocabulary as well. All that said, I was not satisfied with the situation. I wanted higher quality interactions with people. For me that meant spending less time with some otherwise likable people and making some new friends. So be it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5265 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 22 of 46 18 December 2011 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree. A lot of people find it awkward, artificial and tiresome to speak to their own countrymen in a foreign language, especially if they know them well and they have always spoken their native language together. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6409 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 23 of 46 18 December 2011 at 11:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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see this thread too for some explanations of how switching the language can be an issue.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5578 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 24 of 46 18 December 2011 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you want to be a part of that social circle, prove it to them. Engage in an unobtrusive way. Watch their interaction and listen, and when you recognize a name or a word, ask you seat neighbour (not your girlfriend!) what's this all about [name/word]. Quietly. Ask questions that can be answered in a sentence or two. When people laugh, ask nicely to be let in as well. And don't let your girlfriend talk for you, that gives the entirely wrong impression.
But honestly, it can be more entertaining to watch how a group of people interact when they don't expect you to take part in that interaction. Such situations have taught me how to interpret body language better, something I don't usually have the peace of mind for when taking part in a conversation.
Can be perceived as quite rude and can backfire. That only works if all of the group want to talk in English to accomodate that single person, but slip into the other language because they feel more comfortable with it. Edited by Bao on 18 December 2011 at 11:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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