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Warp3: Korean/Japanese (TAC 2015 東亞) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ymer Diglot Newbie Sweden Joined 4622 days ago 20 posts - 20 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Korean | Message 137 of 479 19 May 2012 at 10:51am | IP Logged | |||||
What do you mean Korean is one of the base languages? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5317 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 138 of 479 19 May 2012 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
When you go to http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/ it prompts your for your language, then presents the Japanese lessons in that language. Korean is one of the 17 languages available from that list, thus allowing you to learn Japanese using Korean as your "base" language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| nekouma Triglot Newbie Germany Joined 4439 days ago 23 posts - 30 votes Speaks: French*, English, Japanese Studies: Korean, Hindi, German | Message 139 of 479 19 May 2012 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Nice to see you have decided to add both Japanese and Spanish to your languages.
I'm especially interested to see how you will progress and what kind of "link/relationship" you'll find between Japanese and Korean, as I learned it the opposite way (Japanese first, then Korean). Even though sentences structure is similar and that a lot of my Japanese friends were saying that it should be easy to learn Korean, as I knew Japanese, I have always found Korean (much) more difficult to learn than Japanese (especially vocabulary). Ah! Maybe you already know it, but as you wrote about "보통" (even though it was for Mandarin), the Japanese corresponding word is 「普通」(ふつう). It doesn't sound similar to the Korean word... "비행기" is 「飛行機」（ひこうき）. You can find some similarity, like "비 is similar to ひ", etc... Anyway,if you know that 통=通(つう） and 행=行(こう) then you will be able to guess how you would pronounce 「通行」. Actually, it's not always that simple as there are several possible pronunciations. But it can help. Good luck with your Japanese studies and wait for me for Mandarin. I'm planning on starting it at the beginning of next year (if I can resist the temptation until then ^^). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5317 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 140 of 479 19 May 2012 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've already noticed some advantages with learning Japanese after Korean which is mostly due to the fact that things like particles and SOV word order (which both languages use) are almost second nature to me now. That familiarity with those two concepts has made starting Japanese far easier than starting Korean was (thus far, anyway). Word order in particular took me a long time to get used to in Korean. Of course, that's probably also why I'm finding myself trying to generate Spanish sentences with Korean word order (though I also did that some back a year or so ago when I was last studying Korean and Spanish at the same time).
From what I've read in the past, Japanese has fewer speech levels and honorifics, fewer grammar endings, and a far simpler sound set (which is obvious from the start) when compared to Korean. Thus going this direction *should* be easier than the other way around. Mandarin will definitely be a ways off for me now since I have my hands full with the languages I'm currently learning and don't plan to add another anytime soon. Plus trying out Pimsleur lesson 1 in Mandarin was a bit of a snap back to reality regarding the extra level of complexity that tones will bring to the equation. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5317 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 141 of 479 20 May 2012 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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한국어 (2012년 5월 13일 - 2012년 5월 19일):
Hanja: 7 Korean cards: 39 Completed SKV sections: None Scorched earth reading: None Memorized song lyrics: G.NA - Black and White I've finally finished G.NA's "Black and White" but have yet to add any other songs to the queue, so my Korean song memorization is on hold for now. This is probably for the best anyway, since Pimsleur Japanese will be cutting into my Korean music listening time in the car. However, I was already growing bored of this exercise recently anyway, so I'll resume it again when my interest reappears. Listening: Nothing of note other than some music listening and some unsubbed TV watching. Reading: I completed Part 1 of "Jonathan Livingston Seagull / 갈매기 조나단" (the book split into 3 relatively equal sized parts) and read some on Twitter. Writing: I made one post on Twitter (about restarting Spanish and starting Japanese), but that is about all. --- español (13/5/2012 - 19/5/2012): Assimil: - Lección 2 (16 cards) - Lección 3 (18 cards) - Lección 4 (16 cards) - Lección 5 (20 cards) - Lección 6 (20 cards) - Lección 7 (1 card) - Lección 8 (21 cards) Wow...112 cards reactivated in one week. This deck is going to ramp up in review counts very quickly at that rate. Fortunately these early lessons have very easy sentences, however they also tend to have fewer of them than the later lessons. (Every 7th lesson is a review/explanation lesson which is why Lección 7 only had 1 card associated with it.) If that becomes an issue, I may have to drop the pace a bit. However, these cards are also passive only (for now), so it could be worse. I added one Spanish song back to my MP3 player (Café Tacvba - Eres), but passed on the old Selena songs I have for now since I usually skipped them all the time previously anyway. (I really liked those Selena songs back when I bought the CD several years ago, but they just don't interest me now.) I need to acquire a bit more Spanish music, though I'm not too worried about it for the moment. --- 日本語 (2012年 5月 13日 - 2012年 5月 19日): Pimsleur Japanese: - Lessons 1-2 (21 cards) For now I'm using Pimsleur for the bulk of my non-漢字 Japanese studies, but I do plan to start into a textbook at some point for more detailed grammar info. I did run into a bit of a snag with Pimsleur, though, in that the companion PDF I found on the web is apparently for a slightly different edition. The vocab list for lesson 1 matched up, but didn't quite match on the one for lesson 2. However between Google Translate and Denshi Jisho (thanks for the link CZ), I've been able to figure out the spelling of the phrasings that Pimsleur has introduced thus far. I wonder if this latest Pimsleur edition has gotten slightly less formal, as I noticed that one of the changes was from さようなら (sayounara) in the PDF I have to じゃまた (jamata) in the version of Pimsleur I just purchased. Denshi Jisho notes that じゃまた is a casual form where さようなら seems to be the more formal version (plus I've seen notes that さようなら indicates you won't see them until the following day). I've added some Japanese music to my MP3 player, but based on CZ's input on various artists' pronunciation abilities, I've limited my Korean-artist Japanese music to Kara for now (the remaining songs are from actual Japanese artists). --- While I haven't completely decided what to do about my Hanja/Kanji plans, I'm starting to really lean toward the idea of just ignoring the Japanese readings completely for now and continuing to learn them all as Hanja instead. Then later, I can learn the Japanese readings in place as I learn the actual vocabulary itself. For a while I was tempted to drop the readings completely (for both languages) and just learn meanings and/or keywords, but then I recalled that some of these characters were specifically added to my SRS *because* of their readings. In other words, I'd want to learn a common single-syllable word, but it had several homonyms, so I'd just learn the Hanja character with its reading instead. Two examples of this are 肝 (간; liver) and 江 (강; river). (There are actually better examples than that, but I can't think of them at the moment.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5317 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 142 of 479 27 May 2012 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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한국어 (2012년 5월 20일- 2012년 5월 26일):
Hanja: 9 I started off the week averaging 3 cards/day, but ended up too busy to add more after Tuesday. It's interesting how I was considering letting my goals for this portion slide recently, but now my start into learning Japanese has quickly renewed my interest in gathering more Hanja/Kanji. Korean cards: 34 This deck shares the same story as the Hanja deck. I started off the week great, then stagnated on adding new things after Tuesday. Reading: I read a few more pages of "Jonathan Livingston Seagull / 갈매기 조나단". I've been forgetting to mention that I started watching the series "Coffee House" recently. I can see why CZ liked this series so much as it has been quite hilarious so far. --- español (20/5/2012 - 26/5/2012): Assimil Passive Wave / Card Reactivation: - Lección 9 (19 cards) - Lección 10 (21 cards) - Lección 11 (19 cards) - Lección 12 (24 cards) - Lección 13 (19 cards) - Lección 14 (0 cards) - Lección 15 (19 cards) Assimil SRS data entry (in suspended state): - Lección 53 (27 cards) - Lección 54 (25 cards) - Lección 55 (25 cards) --- 日本語 (2012年 5月 20日 - 2012年 5月 26日): Pimsleur Japanese: - Lessons 3-5 (24 cards) I'm currently doing 2 passes per Japanese lesson (one pass per day) which seems to be working well. I would do 2 passes per day like I did with Korean and Spanish, but then that would mean spending no time during my commute on music listening, so I'd rather move at a slightly slower pace and spend the commute home listening to something other than Pimsleur Japanese. I haven't acquired any textbooks for Japanese yet (other than FSI Fast and DLI, which I may or may not use; I didn't use either for Spanish or Korean), but have several candidates for both English and Korean bases. I also need to try the Michel Thomas Japanese lesson 1 file I have and see if I like that course. I finally remembered to add Japanese to the tag list and subject line of this log. Edited by Warp3 on 27 May 2012 at 2:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5317 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 143 of 479 03 June 2012 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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한국어 (2012년 5월 27일- 2012년 6월 2일):
Hanja: 14 Rather than attempting to add 1 Hanja per day, I've found myself in the habit of taking any dead time during music shows (i.e. times when performers that don't particularly interest me are performing) and adding Hanja cards during that time. I do try to limit myself to 3 new characters per day, though, since it can be tough to remember too many new cards at a time (plus my overall review counts are already very high lately due to other decks). I am now up to 397 characters in my Hanja deck, so I've made a good bit of progress since the TAC started. Korean cards: 39 All my Korean vocab has been coming from TV screen shots lately. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I really need to go back to getting them from other sources as well (lyrics, TTMIK 이야기, SKV, etc.). One thing I really need to do is to go back through my deck and find several of my older cards where I was adding sentences, not words and grammar constructions and create new cards for the various words and grammar that appear in those cards, but that I haven't yet truly learned on their own. Often words I add as "new vocabulary" turn out to be words I already had inside a sentence in my deck from over a year ago, but I tend to process the sentence as a whole, not necessarily all the words inside it. Honestly, I could probably get several weeks worth of new cards simply by mining my own SRS deck as the sole source. Reading: I completed part 2 (of 3) of the book "Jonathan Livingston Seagull / 갈매기 조나단". My reviews for the Korean deck are starting to rapidly climb lately (over 100 reviews per day for just that deck which is a number I haven't seen in a long time). I think the constant addition of cards through the TAC so far is finally having a cumulative effect on the daily counts. The review counts of the reactivated Spanish deck and the new Japanese deck effect this as well since they increase the total Anki workload. On the plus side this deck now has 3656 total cards, so I've learned a lot of new vocabulary already since starting the TAC. --- español (27/5/2012 - 2/6/2012): Assimil Passive Wave / Card Reactivation: - Lección 16 (20 cards) - Lección 17 (21 cards) - Lección 18 (20 cards) - Lección 19 (21 cards) - Lección 20 (18 cards) - Lección 21 (0 cards) - Lección 22 (20 cards) Assimil SRS data entry (in suspended state): - Lección 57 (26 cards) I'm considering slowing the rate at which I do Assimil lessons for two reasons. The first is to limit the rate of new reviews in Anki (see comments in the Korean section above about Anki total review counts). The second is to allow myself to keep up adding new lessons into Anki, so I don't catch up and thus find myself having to type in each new lesson as I do it (like I did initially). As a result, what I may do instead is do a lesson every other day and do data entry on a later lesson on in between days. For example, if I did lesson 23 today (and activated those cards in Anki) then tomorrow I would type in the data for lesson 58 and then do lesson 24 the following day. In some ways, this is also like adding a 3rd wave to Assimil as the "data entry" wave gives me a preview of the material long before I actually get there. --- 日本語 (2012年 5月 27日 - 2012年 6月 2日): Pimsleur Japanese: - Lessons 6-9 (51 cards) (NOTE: I've only done the first pass of Lesson 9 so far, but I've already added the SRS entries for it.) Since the pricing went wonky for "Japanese for Everyone" on Amazon, I read some other reviews (both there and on this board) and purchased "Japanese for Busy People 1: Kana Version" instead (though I may still get the other book later). Unlike JFE, JFBP doesn't introduce any Kanji at all in the first book, however it also uses zero romanji unless you get the Romanized Version of book 1 instead (book 1 is available in either Romanized or Kana versions; later books don't offer Romanized versions). Since I'm still learning Hanja on the side to get a head start, I'm fine with this textbook feeding in Kanji at a slower pace than the other one (JFBP introduces Kanji in book 2). JFBP also includes an audio CD, which JFE does not. (Apparently JFE has audio available, but reviews imply it is difficult to locate and acquire.) I also ordered Lonely Planet's Japanese phrase book at the same time, but UPS seems to have misplaced it (JFBP arrived on Thursday via FedEx). I've not added much in the way of Japanese music yet, but previously Kara's "Go Go Summer" was the only song that had really caught my attention. However recently, I've found myself actively playing AKB48's "Beginner". That song seems quite different than most of AKB48's other songs (most of which are far too "cheesy" sounding) and is quite addictive. Edited by Warp3 on 03 June 2012 at 5:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5431 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 144 of 479 03 June 2012 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Stay away from Japanese idol music. It's terribad.
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