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Вопрос о грамматике

 Language Learning Forum : Русский Post Reply
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Radu-1987
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 Message 41 of 51
03 April 2012 at 1:02pm | IP Logged 
I've found these sentences below from a text book which confused me a bit, can anyone help?

«Андрей выучил испанский язык.»

I know that above means "Andrei studied Spanish language."

but this one below is the the confusing one;

«Мы знаем, что английский язык Андрей учил

When учить is used, should it not mean "to teach" and needs to be used with dative and accusative cases? For example: «Андрей учил английскому языку детей.»?

So what confused me above sentence was that should «английский язык» in the sentence «Мы знаем, что английский язык Андрей учил.» not be «английскому языку»? Or should «учил» not be «выучил»?

Edited by Radu-1987 on 03 April 2012 at 1:05pm

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Марк
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 Message 42 of 51
03 April 2012 at 3:14pm | IP Logged 
Учить что-то = to learn something. Учить кого-то = to teach someone.
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Serpent
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 Message 43 of 51
03 April 2012 at 7:01pm | IP Logged 
Кстати, заголовок этого подфорума звучит немного странно. Лучше смотрелось бы "как учить/изучать иностранные языки" или "как выучить иностранный язык" =)

btw: выучить=to become fluent, to master

Edited by Serpent on 03 April 2012 at 7:26pm

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Eager Beaver
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 Message 44 of 51
06 May 2012 at 4:09pm | IP Logged 
Андрей учил испанский язык - he spent time on studying Spanish, did something to master it, but we don't know whether he was successful or not.
Андрей выучил испанский язык - he studied Spanish and now is fully proficient in it.


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Serpent
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 Message 45 of 51
06 May 2012 at 10:08pm | IP Logged 
BTW past+imperfective often corresponds to "used to" in English - at some point in the past, someone did something.

Also, Мы знаем, что английский язык Андрей учил isn't neutral. It stresses English and would be natural where we're discussing what else he's studied. For example: Мы знаем, что португальский Андрей учил. Наверное, испанский он тоже знает. The neutral sentence is: Мы знаем, что Андрей учил английский язык.

In the meaning teach, учить normally sounds awkward without a direct object. преподавать has this general meaning of teaching, working as a teacher, giving lessons. (in some contexts only учить is possible - when you "teach" your own kids or even your friend's kids, informally. преподавать has a feel of "serious business" about it, for example преподаватель is more commonly used about university profs)

Oh btw the perfective form of учить as in to teach is научить in modern Russian, though выучить isn't completely wrong, just weird/old-fashioned/высокого штиля)

Edited by Serpent on 06 May 2012 at 10:34pm

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lsilvaj
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 Message 46 of 51
11 June 2015 at 9:01pm | IP Logged 
From lesson 61 of Assimil Le Russe sans Peine (70s):

"мама обычно снимает с меня ботинк, перед тем как меня мыть"

translated as " (...) avant de me laver" (before washing me)

I can't understand the role of "тем как" in the sentence and there are no comments about it in the book.

Thanks...

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Eager Beaver
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 Message 47 of 51
11 June 2015 at 9:17pm | IP Logged 
Перед тем как is a conjunction that is used in certain syntax patterns (usually followed by an infinitive). Simply перед is a preposition used before nouns/pronouns.

Перед тем как could be translated into English in various ways:
before you do something
before doing something

Here are some more examples for you:
Перед тем как купить учебник русского языка, я хорошо подумал.
Он всегда проверяет домашнюю работу, перед тем как отправить ее учителю.


Edited by Eager Beaver on 11 June 2015 at 9:18pm

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lsilvaj
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 Message 48 of 51
11 June 2015 at 9:45pm | IP Logged 
Thanks, that was really helpful.

That's what annoys me sometimes about Assimil, they skip important structures that don't look so obvious to a beginner. I'm at Lesson 80 and this was still not adressed.


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