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Difficulty of Turkish

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ruskivyetr
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 Message 9 of 49
21 December 2009 at 4:24am | IP Logged 
Turkish grammar is different rather than difficult. In a brief stint in Turkish, I found that it was very regular. You will enjoy it's regularity, and the fact that it is so easy to read. You do have to make sure you have vowel harmony right (although this is just a matter of getting used to). I will pick it up again when I have the time...
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reasonableman
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 Message 10 of 49
10 January 2010 at 12:38pm | IP Logged 
I think that Turkish is difficult.

I've been studying for a year and can still be confounded by simple sentences. The main issue I think for me is the aggulation combined with different word orders.

I'm told that (especially in spoken Turkish) word order can be changed for emphasis (the cases mean the sentence doesn't change meaning). However sometimes the cases can be hard to spot if lots of suffixes are present.

Certainly if I was studying French I would have expect to have made more progress...
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davithet
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 Message 11 of 49
10 January 2010 at 12:54pm | IP Logged 
I speak my native Georgian but when I tried to learn Turkish language it was so easy language for me I think depend about your native language to learn Turkish language grammar. so I think for Japanese native speakers has problem to learn Turkish language because Japanese Grammar too different from Turkish grammar for explanation lessons.
I learned both languages Turkish and Japanese Languages.
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davithet
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 Message 12 of 49
10 January 2010 at 1:00pm | IP Logged 
for example : Turkish -BEN SEN SEVİYORUM --and--Japanese - WATASHI WA ANATA WO AISHITE IMASU. both mean I love you. in my native Georgian -miqvarkhar მიყვარხარ .
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Ertugrul
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 Message 13 of 49
13 January 2010 at 4:27pm | IP Logged 
Yes, word order is very important in Turkish.
Regularly it is SUBJECT + OBJECT + VERB. However this may change due to emphasis.
And the last word which is just before the Verb is the emphasis of whole sentence.

And you're right about cases, reasonableman.

Words with so many suffixes may be confusing. But this will not be problem if you master basic rules and vowel harmony.

For example; famous Turkish long-word: Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklarımızdansınız.

It means "You are one of those who we were not able to become Czechoslovakian "

It has very much suffixes, indeed.
Let's examine it:

Çekoslovakya means Czechoslovakia
+li suffix is used to make a country name to a country's citizen. (similar to -ian suffix in English)
It may change due to vowel harmony.

Çekoslovakyalı, so it means Czechoslovakian.

+leş suffix is added a name or adjective to form a name-based verb. (it adds to become meaning in English)
For example; kötü means bad. Kötü+leş(*mek) means (*to) become bad.
As you know suffixes may change due to vowel harmony.
+leş changes to +laş if it comes after a back vowel.
Since ı of Çekoslovaklı word is a back vowel, +leş transforms to +laş when added.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaş(*mak) means (*to) become a Czechoslovakian.

+tir suffix is a causative voice suffix. It is added to a verb to form a causative voice.
(There is no specific suffix for that in English; it is referred to (*to) cause/make someone to do something phrase.)
Kötüleş(*mek) means (*to) become bad; as you know.
Kötüleştir(*mek) means (*to) cause/make (something) to become bad.
Also +tir may change due to vowel harmony.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştır(*mak) means (*to) cause [or make] (someone/something) to become Czechoslovakian.

+e suffix is added a verb to form an ability, qualification, adequacy, and sufficiency phrase. (It is referred to can or (*to) be able to in English).
As in example; yap(*mak) means (+to) do. Yapa(bil)(*mek) means can do or (+to) be able to do.
+e suffix also may change due to vowel harmony. And “+bil” is added in regular phrases, in relative clauses “+bil” may be neglected.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştıra(*mak) does not have a meaning yet. But it has can or (*to) be able to meaning itself.

+me suffix is used to add a negation particle which is added to verbs. (It is not in English)
+me may change due to vowel harmony.
As in example: Yapmadım means I did not do.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştırama(*mak) means (*to) not be able to cause/make (someone/something) become Czechoslovakian.

+di suffix is Simple Past tense suffix.
+k suffix is the personal suffix for 1st person plural.
As in example: Yapmadık means We did not do.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadık means We were not able to cause/make (someone/something) become Czechoslovakian.

+ler suffix is plural-maker in Turkish. It may change due to vowel harmony.
As in example; kitap means book. kitaplar means books.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklar has semantic problems at first glance.
When added with accusative case +i it makes whole phrase as in a relative clause.
And finally when added with personal suffix (here it is +mız) relative clause is completed.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklarımız means (The people/Those) who we were not able to cause/make become Czechoslovakian; as you see it is not completed sentence. It is just the relative clause for further phrase.

+den suffix is here used as from or one of. It may change due to vowel harmony.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklarımızdan means from/one of those we were not able to become Czechoslovakian. Still it does not have a regular meaning.

+siniz suffix is added a name/adjective to form a sentence with predicate of “to be” for 2nd person (polite). It may change due to vowel harmony.
As in example; kötüsünüz means You are bad.

So, Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklarımızdansınız means You are one of those who we were not able to become Czechoslovakian.


----

I love you is Ben seni seviyorum.

Edited by Ertugrul on 13 January 2010 at 4:52pm

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William Camden
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 Message 14 of 49
13 January 2010 at 5:53pm | IP Logged 
I speak it quite fluently and usually understand it, except in cases where an excited speaker is going too fast, and I have to tell them to slow down. I don't write it without mistakes, though. Overall, I would put myself at the "basic fluency" level.
My key problem is the difference of the syntax from English. It is very non-Indo-European in its formation and I actually have to put my mind into a different place when speaking Turkish. Although people say about German that they have to wait for the verb to grasp a sentence's overall meaning, this is actually far more true of Turkish. I don't have to make the same effort with West European or even Slavic languages.

Edited by William Camden on 13 January 2010 at 5:55pm

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Fasulye
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 Message 15 of 49
13 January 2010 at 8:54pm | IP Logged 
Ertugrul wrote:

For example; famous Turkish long-word: Çekoslovakyalılaştıramadıklarımızdansınız.

It means "You are one of those who we were not able to become Czechoslovakian "


WOW, what a long word!!!

I would say that anybody, who is able to read it aloud without making a mistake, is a native speaker of Turkish. So this is the perfect testword to distinguish non-native speakers from native speakers. Interesting the grammar structure of this word. You really have to devide this word into sections to understand what it means.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 13 January 2010 at 8:56pm

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d3n1z_
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 Message 16 of 49
15 January 2010 at 2:55pm | IP Logged 
Turkish is not easy. Grammar is very hard for foreigners. But you can learn.


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