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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| JS-1 Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 5764 days ago 144 posts - 166 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), German, Japanese, Ancient Egyptian, Arabic (Written) | Message 9 of 31 13 June 2009 at 8:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Universities in many countries favour specialised education, so it is not possible to mix
courses from different disciplines, and it is quite common to study a single subject for four years. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6631 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 10 of 31 13 June 2009 at 9:01am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Sure, for example I know that's the case in the UK. But zerothinking's response sounded like he had never heard of anybody being required to take a course. The strong reaction surprised me ("How dare they?"), and seemed out of place when it's such a common thing.
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| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6858 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 11 of 31 13 June 2009 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I think zerothinking was mostly referring to the compulsory foreign language.
Most people that study something not directly related to their major solely because it's compulsory just do what is needed for the credit and then forget everything post-exam. The foreign language class time is mediocre and insufficient even when the student is dedicated, so it's not hard to see how a compulsory language course to someone with no interest would be a total waste of time and resources. In Australia it's the norm to only study what it is you are actually studying. It seems entirely alien to us to have to take a compulsory math class for instance if we are studying history or something totally unrelated. We have core units that contribute to our major and then you are free to decide how you make up the rest of your credits. Most people don't venture too far from their chosen discipline though. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| zerothinking Senior Member Australia Joined 6153 days ago 528 posts - 772 votes Speaks: English* | Message 12 of 31 14 June 2009 at 1:01am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
My response was more about a language course being compulsory. I suppose I didn't make that clear. I apologize about that. Edited by zerothinking on 15 June 2009 at 7:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Dixon Groupie Canada Joined 5832 days ago 54 posts - 74 votes Speaks: English* | Message 13 of 31 14 June 2009 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
At my Canadian university, the only courses required are two on academic writing in English. All classes require academic writing, like the ability to cite references properly. Not all classes require you to know Spanish or Japanese. To most people, learning Spanish or Japanese would be a waste of their time.
No student will get a well-rounded education by being forced to sit in a class he doesn't like or isn't convinced is useful. He will cram a bunch of stuff for a test and then forget it. Nor do I think a university is a place to get a well-rounded education anyway, but that's another topic. Why do engineering students need to be indoctrinated with socialist propaganda in history class when they're paying to learn their trade? Universities are just about the only place in the world where it's still respectable to be a Maoist. One could get a *real* well-rounded education by reading great works of literature, not sitting in a philosophy class in which the professor declares "Everything is absurd!" 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5450 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 14 of 31 14 June 2009 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
That is true in the UK too. I have been a student both at a US university (Masters) and a UK university (for a PhD) - and found that the US students had a relatively poor level of education at high school, compared to other countries. These supplementary subjects are necessary at university for US students to "catch up" internationally. Of course, it means that the "majors" of BA and BSc degrees in the US are diluted with these other topics. Therefore, it seems to me much more common for US students to then take a Masters degree, where there is a greater focus on the actual "major" being studied. By the time students reach the PhD level, the US students appear to have caught up with, and perhaps even overtaken, those from other countries. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Kugel Senior Member United States Joined 6319 days ago 497 posts - 555 votes Speaks: English* | Message 15 of 31 14 June 2009 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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It depends a lot on what major you are going for. Most science majors don't need to take all the additional classes that everyone here is thinking of.
And is the requirement of 9 credits really too much to ask for for Humanities? That's only 3 classes. As for U.S. high school students having a poor level of education, I think that mainly depends on what school district you are referring to. If a college student is taking foreign language classes at college for requirements, then that only means the high school guidance counselor/student didn't have the necessary foresight, as this requirement could have been painlessly taken care of in 9th and 10th grade. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6631 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 16 of 31 14 June 2009 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Maybe some clarification would help. Not everyone is necessarily required to take a foreign language. It depends on the university and the major. The university I'll be attending next year, for example, requires all undergrads to take a few low-level math and science classes, along with some history, English composition, and other humanities-related subjects. This is the "core curriculum," and is usually taken the first year or so. Then, people majoring (specializing, concentraing...depending on where you live) in humanities-type fields will take an additional science class or two, and a foreign language. History of science or philosophy of science is allowed to substitute for normal science courses, and many people have already passed the language requirement in high school, so it is waived. All these extra requirements may very well be due to low standards in American high schools (Splog's post seems right on). But that's another post in itself.
By that line of reasoning, why don't we toss out primary and secondary education as well? If the kids don't like to be there, they won't learn anything anyway, so why force them to sit there? Yes, many students do just what you mentioned. That is hardly the university's problem. It's more a problem with the student's lack of concern with his own education.
Maybe we differ in opinion here, but I don't think universities should be thought of as trade schools. Yes, you may learn a trade, but the primary focus of a university is education and research, not to prepare worker bees (although many see it that way).
No argument there. However, a university is a good place to become introduced to these works and the ideas they contain, and for guided discourse on these topics. It sounds like you've had a bad experience with some professors, but the fault lies with the professors thinking it is their place to impose their views on you, and with the university allowing that to happen. Education (from Latin ex, "from within" and ducare, "to guide") is guiding the student to think on his own and form his own opinion, not indoctrinating him. By the way, one wonderful thing about having a "core curriculum" (IMO) is the opportunity to be exposed to some great experts in various fields, rather than high school teachers that are just regurgitating what they learned in their undergrad classes. One of the art history classes I took while studying for my music degree was taught by one of the curators of the Museum of Fine Art in Boston. The other was taught by an Egyptologist that had been on several digs in Egypt and some of his findings were on display at the museum (which hosts one of the largest collections of Egyptian artifacts in the world outside of Egypt itself). I wouldn't have traded those classes for more music classes if you paid me. They were some of the best educational experiences I've ever had, and a high school course in art history would not have provided that. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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