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Russian and other Slavic languages

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Cherepaha
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6374 days ago
126 posts - 175 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: Spanish, Polish, Latin, French

 
 Message 25 of 43
07 May 2010 at 12:01pm | IP Logged 
Euphorion wrote:
You shouldnt forget about Slovak - it is said to be a gateway to other Slavic languages, the southest and the eastest of the western Slavic languages, it is very clear and has a relatively simple and modern grammar. Theoretically every Slav would understand Slovak.


Mmm, I'd tried listening to Slavoj Žižek speak in Slovak, I assume, with an intent to understand, as he is so engaging in English (http://blog.vest.si/jansadogblogco/).
Alas, I can only make out individual words and random phrases. So, it is far enough from Russian to be quite opaque for a native Russian speaker.
1 person has voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 6941 days ago
4228 posts - 8259 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 26 of 43
07 May 2010 at 4:05pm | IP Logged 
Cherepaha wrote:
Euphorion wrote:
You shouldnt forget about Slovak - it is said to be a gateway to other Slavic languages, the southest and the eastest of the western Slavic languages, it is very clear and has a relatively simple and modern grammar. Theoretically every Slav would understand Slovak.


Mmm, I'd tried listening to Slavoj Žižek speak in Slovak, I assume, with an intent to understand, as he is so engaging in English (http://blog.vest.si/jansadogblogco/).
Alas, I can only make out individual words and random phrases. So, it is far enough from Russian to be quite opaque for a native Russian speaker.


Ummm... Slavoj Zizek is SLOVENIAN, not Slovak.


1 person has voted this message useful



Cherepaha
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6374 days ago
126 posts - 175 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: Spanish, Polish, Latin, French

 
 Message 27 of 43
07 May 2010 at 4:43pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
Cherepaha wrote:
Euphorion wrote:
You shouldnt forget about Slovak - it is said to be a gateway to other Slavic languages, the southest and the eastest of the western Slavic languages, it is very clear and has a relatively simple and modern grammar. Theoretically every Slav would understand Slovak.


Mmm, I'd tried listening to Slavoj Žižek speak in Slovak, I assume, with an intent to understand, as he is so engaging in English (http://blog.vest.si/jansadogblogco/).
Alas, I can only make out individual words and random phrases. So, it is far enough from Russian to be quite opaque for a native Russian speaker.


Ummm... Slavoj Zizek is SLOVENIAN, not Slovak.



I see, okay :). Thanks.

1 person has voted this message useful



Euphorion
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5125 days ago
106 posts - 147 votes 
Speaks: Slovak*, Czech, EnglishC2, GermanC1, SpanishC2, French

 
 Message 28 of 43
07 May 2010 at 9:49pm | IP Logged 
Thanks Chung :) Cherepaha, you would really understand Slovak, at least more than Slovenian.

That brings me to an old remark that Slovak is often incorrectly called Slovakian which can resemble Slovenian.

So I repeat, a man from Slovakia is a Slovak and he speaks Slovak
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Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 6941 days ago
4228 posts - 8259 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 29 of 43
07 May 2010 at 11:40pm | IP Logged 
Euphorion wrote:
Thanks Chung :) Cherepaha, you would really understand Slovak, at least more than Slovenian.

That brings me to an old remark that Slovak is often incorrectly called [I]Slovakian[/I] which can resemble Slovenian.

So I repeat, a man from Slovakia is a [B]Slovak[/B] and he speaks [B]Slovak[/B]


That's not totally borne out by what occurs and is documented in English. "Slovak" as an adjective or the noun representing either the language or a person appears to be more frequently-used in English (I myself rarely use "Slovakian" but I don't deem it to be incorrect when seeing anyone else (native or non-native) use it in English.) Yet despite claims to the contrary, using "Slovakian" in similar ways as "Slovak" is also deemed acceptable in English.

As noted by the Compact Oxford English Dictionary...

www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/slovak?view=uk wrote:
Slovak

/slovak/

• noun 1 a person from Slovakia. 2 the language of Slovakia.



www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/slovakian?view=uk wrote:
Slovakian

/slvəkkiən/

• noun a person from Slovakia.

• adjective relating to Slovakia.



It's the same story for the UK's Transatlantic cousins who rely on Merriam-Webster...

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slovak wrote:
Main Entry: Slo·vak
Pronunciation: \ˈslō-ˌväk, -ˌvak\
Function: noun
Etymology: Slovak slovák
Date: 1829

1 : a member of a Slavic people of Slovakia
2 : the Slavic language of the Slovak people

— Slovak adjective

— Slo·va·ki·an \slō-ˈvä-kē-ən, -ˈva-\ adjective or noun



www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slovakian wrote:

Main Entry: Slo·vak
Pronunciation: \ˈslō-ˌväk, -ˌvak\
Function: noun
Etymology: Slovak slovák
Date: 1829

1 : a member of a Slavic people of Slovakia
2 : the Slavic language of the Slovak people

— Slovak adjective

— Slo·va·ki·an \slō-ˈvä-kē-ən, -ˈva-\ adjective or noun


The only arguably "incorrect" use of "Slovakian" that I can detect could be if I were to use it as a synonym for "Slovak" as a language (i.e. "I speak Slovakian"). However it's not explicit in either Oxford or Merriam-Webster whether "Slovakian" as a noun refers to a person or the language. What's more is that one could argue that saying "I speak Slovakian" is an elliptical construction of "I speak the Slovakian language" which would be deemed correct according to the dictionaries by virtue of treating "Slovakian" as an adjective.

I've read elsewhere that the basis for claims that the English use of "Slovakian" is incorrect draws on analogy to the term "Czech" which lacks a related form such as *"Czechian". Unfortunately, the appeal to analogy falls apart when we take into account pairs such as Croat/Croatian, Slovene/Slovenian and Serb/Serbian which are also used interchangeably to varying degrees like Slovak/Slovakian. It's interesting to note that Slovenes/Slovenians sometimes deprecate the term "Slovenian" as some Slovaks do for "Slovakian".

As far as I can tell, Croats/Croatians and Serbs/Serbians however are not very sensitive to the convention in English.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Euphorion
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5125 days ago
106 posts - 147 votes 
Speaks: Slovak*, Czech, EnglishC2, GermanC1, SpanishC2, French

 
 Message 30 of 43
08 May 2010 at 12:07am | IP Logged 
A very useful post, thanks Chung!

Btw: well, "Czechian", God help us! :)
1 person has voted this message useful



Delodephius
Bilingual Tetraglot
Senior Member
Yugoslavia
Joined 5188 days ago
342 posts - 501 votes 
Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech
Studies: Russian, Japanese

 
 Message 31 of 43
08 May 2010 at 2:04am | IP Logged 
I always thought Slovakian referred to someone being from Slovakia, while Slovak meant someone who is not necessarily from Slovakia, like me.

However I never use Slovakian for people only for language or something else. Slovaks speaks Slovakian, same way Serbs speak Serbian, Croats speak Croatian, Slovenes speak Slovenian. At least that's my logic.
1 person has voted this message useful



Delodephius
Bilingual Tetraglot
Senior Member
Yugoslavia
Joined 5188 days ago
342 posts - 501 votes 
Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech
Studies: Russian, Japanese

 
 Message 32 of 43
08 May 2010 at 2:05am | IP Logged 
Cherepaha wrote:
Chung wrote:
Cherepaha wrote:
Euphorion wrote:
You shouldnt forget about Slovak - it is said to be a gateway to other Slavic languages, the southest and the eastest of the western Slavic languages, it is very clear and has a relatively simple and modern grammar. Theoretically every Slav would understand Slovak.


Mmm, I'd tried listening to Slavoj Žižek speak in Slovak, I assume, with an intent to understand, as he is so engaging in English (http://blog.vest.si/jansadogblogco/).
Alas, I can only make out individual words and random phrases. So, it is far enough from Russian to be quite opaque for a native Russian speaker.


Ummm... Slavoj Zizek is SLOVENIAN, not Slovak.



I see, okay :). Thanks.


Try this recording:
http://www.omniglot.com/soundfiles/udhr/udhr_sk.mp3

That's actually me talking. :-)


3 persons have voted this message useful



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