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On L-R | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Hashimi Senior Member Oman Joined 6055 days ago 362 posts - 529 votes  Speaks: Arabic (Written)* Studies: English, Japanese | Message 57 of 164 27 March 2009 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
I know the reason! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Akipenda Lugha Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 5534 days ago 78 posts - 82 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Swahili, Sign Language, Spanish | Message 58 of 164 27 March 2009 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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To people who use L-R... do you jot down words that you don't understand at all/are becoming transparent/you want to remember as you're reading, or does this break up the flow? And do you put more time into listening to target language audio and reading target language text or into listening to target language audio and reading native language text, as the original poster suggests?
I am interested in doing L-R but would like some clarification on how others do it. I've already pulled together and am seeking out some more materials for Spanish and french to English for myself so I can try it (go harry potter, dan brown, and le petit prince!) Thanks 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6235 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 59 of 164 27 March 2009 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | ||
I absolutely do -not- jot down the words. At the beginning, nothing is clear, then a few words are; later on, when most of the words are, the rest become so through context and the translation almost without fail (the only real exception is idioms that don't translate directly; the individual words in these can remain opaque if they're uncommon and if, like me, you don't use a pop-up dictionary). At any given point, the vast majority of the words are either clear or unclear; jotting would make following along with the audio impossible without pausing, at least if you're wired like I am (some people seem to concentrate better if they're taking notes; for me, it's very much the opposite). As for where I put more time reading: it depends on how far along I am. At the beginning, I almost exclusively read L1; at the end, I primarily read L2. Between, I gradually shift as the language becomes more familiar; I don't have a fixed plan for doing so, but just do what feels most natural (when L2 is incomprehensible, reading in it and listening to the audio isn't all that fun; when L2 is very comprehensible, reading in L1, which generally has very different structures, feels like it's an annoyance, and I only refer to it for unknown words or to clarify the meaning of constructs I'm unsure of - basically, just shift to what feels easiest). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| glossa.passion Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6117 days ago 267 posts - 349 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, EnglishC1, Danish Studies: Spanish, Dutch | Message 60 of 164 27 March 2009 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I could never understand all the fuss that is/was made around the so called L-R-method. The ultra-literal double-spaced translation as a kernel is also used by others for many years.
The oldest source I know is “Französisch Sprechen und Denken” (Speak and Think French) by Prof. Teichmann, published in 1905(!). Due to the obvious lack of audio at that time, he inserted a further line with sound script. Nowadays the Birkenbihl-Method uses this approach and Miss Birkenbihl created a language learning method around it. Illustrations can be found here: for English speakers (there’s even shadowing in a few sentences explained) for Spanish speakers For German speakers there are language courses for English, Spanish, French and Italian from Beginner to Advanced available and all are entirely in the two-line manner. For other languages she recommends Assimil :-) Shortly said, listening while reading is indeed effortless, but the crucial part comes afterwards, in activating the passively aquired knowledge. And this part is repetition and hard work, like one has to do with every method or way of learning a foreign language! One should not be blinded by the rather effortless first part!!! But listening and reading only can at least provide lots of passive knowledge. So in my point of view there’s nothing revolutionary with L-R. I would neither use it as “the” only method nor would I abandon it. I wouldn't never ever restrict myself to one method or way of language studying. Some people are very fond of vocab-training with SRS and nobody would say, that this is the only way. And only if one is interested, the above sentences are based on my own laymanish experiences: In 2005, years before I found this forum, I worked through the two beginner courses of Spanish Birkenbihl for about 6 months. Then I went on holiday to Venezuela where I could test my newly aquired language skills. I could function well in the hotel and outside in all-day situations. My greatest achievement had been a nearly one hour long conversation with a taxidriver. But I had of course my limitations! Being at home again I wanted to work through the advanced courses, but for private reasons I had to take a longer break from all of my language learning activities. Last year I followed Spanish course on TV and I was surprised, how much I still know. In July 2007 I started with Danish. Using the Assimil book, I made double-spaced literal translations for half of the lessons for listening-reading. With the help of a Makro in Word it’s not much of an effort. For the second half of the book I didn’t use those literal translations. Then I worked through some other textbooks and read Danish books. All in all I invested about 10 months, did 2 months nothing and went then to Copenhagen for a few days. Again I could express myself well in all-day-situations. And I could understand much more than years ago in Spanish. I still read in Danish and work on this language. In January 2009 I started with Turkish and at the very beginning I couldn’t stand L-R, so I worked through a rather old fashioned grammar-text-book. Now, after 3 months I work additionally with L-R. Why? When I have read a text several times while listening and really comprehended it, I close my eyes and listen only. Imagine, you listen to a foreign language and understand everything without translation. I do enjoy this special moment :-) and it always gives me a kick to do more. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Akipenda Lugha Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 5534 days ago 78 posts - 82 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Swahili, Sign Language, Spanish | Message 61 of 164 27 March 2009 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you for the clear answer Volte. I spent a bit of time listening-reading to the one book I managed to get all the materials for and can see how I will develop what works best for me with it.
One more question, since I am unclear about which is L1 and which is L2 (let alone LSD1 or 2), or which is the 'translation' the original poster referred to. My impression was that you start by reading (in my case) the text in English. Then you turn on the Spanish recording and read the Spanish text along with it. Then you listen to the Spanish recording and read the English text along with it, and repeat this step several times. From what you just wrote it seems you do it the other way around. Am I correct? Thanks! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 5949 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 62 of 164 27 March 2009 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would like to point out that not one person has called L-R
'revolutionary' nor have they claimed that it is the only method they would ever use. Having said that I enjoyed your post.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 5949 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 63 of 164 27 March 2009 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | ||
Without the jargon, I simply read the text in my native language whilst following along with the audio in the foreign language. I generally read each sentence slightly ahead of the audio so that I can examine the stream of sounds that follow. At first you are looking for 'anchor' (such as names etc.) words that let you know that the audio is at the correct part of the text (i.e. you haven't fallen behind the audio or read ahead). Over time you stop looking for these isolated words and start paying attention to sets of words, and then sentences. Eventually, after reading a sentence, you find yourself second guessing what the audio is going to say. I haven't used parallel texts so I can't comment on that part of it. I hope that helps. Edited by Jimmymac on 27 March 2009 at 4:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Akipenda Lugha Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 5534 days ago 78 posts - 82 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Swahili, Sign Language, Spanish | Message 64 of 164 27 March 2009 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Interesting. I find I have much more textual understanding than auditory, so I could see myself having difficulty with that method. However I would be interested in trying it to develop more comfort with the audio stream. In any case, i am getting the sense that it is something I can adapt to my own purpose and that the most important thing is exposure of any kind.
Thank you, and I am very excited to try this myself! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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