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L-R experts: Isn’t it strange? | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Hashimi Senior Member Oman Joined 2570 days ago 349 posts - 161 votes  Speaks: Arabic (Written)* Studies: English, Japanese | Message 1 of 25 16 March 2009 at 7:33am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Siomotteikiru & other L-R experts (e.g. Volte) says that the 3rd step is the most important thing in the method (you look at the translation and listen to the text at the same time.)
Many of us have watched tens or hundreds of foreign materials (films, tv show, etc.) with their mother language subtitle (e.g. English), but it didn't improve our comprehension in those languages. So why doesn't it work here? For example, last week, my sister had watched more 50 episodes of an anime series (approx. 20 hours) with subtitles in her mother language, and my brother had watched more than 300 episodes in the last months (approx. 100 hours) with subtitles. It means that they followed the L-R method, looked at the translation and listened to the audio at the same time, but they can't understand one Japanese sentence without translation! Who can explain this? | ||||||||||||||||||
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 2360 days ago 146 posts - 8 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 2 of 25 16 March 2009 at 8:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Maybe because subtitles for TV programmes are usually rubbish, and if you listen-read a book you concentrate completely on what you're reading and listening to (and you repeat the same material), whereas if you're watching, say, One Piece, you're using those subtitles to interpret what's happening in the episode, not focusing your attention on them.
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| severian Diglot Newbie Sweden Joined 2090 days ago 20 posts Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, French | Message 4 of 25 16 March 2009 at 9:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I'm not an expert. But I think that's because they didn't take basic education in the language. The person has to open the door first by knowing the fundamental grammar and vocabulary, then perhaps that method will work. Because then you'll get many of that: "Aha, that's what it means" moments.
And finally be interested in learning it and listen carefully. My arabic education when I was a kid, was from arabic anime (Captain Majid :). Edited by severian on 16 March 2009 at 9:42am | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 2464 days ago 276 posts - 92 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 5 of 25 16 March 2009 at 10:03am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I think one of the most important differences here is intention.
With L-R your intention is to learn the language; thus your learning processes become actively involved. When watching movies we are simply enjoying the plot without making any effort to learn the language. I suppose the amount of dialogue is also an importnat factor. Think about the 17 hours of solid speaking that comes with a Harry Potter audiobook compared to the 45 minutes or so of dialogue in a movie. On top of that even if you watch two movies a week in a particular language your looking at only an hour/hour and a half of audio. I doubt that is substantial enough to learn a language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Hashimi Senior Member Oman Joined 2570 days ago 349 posts - 161 votes Speaks: Arabic (Written)* Studies: English, Japanese | Message 6 of 25 16 March 2009 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Not all of them.
How did you know that?! Yes, they are watching One Piece :) ***
Good answer. But I'm not yet convinced why is there no a slight improvement. 100 hours isn't a little time! ***
I thought so, but siomotteikiru said that there is no need to study grammar, and you can start using L-R to learn a language from scratch!
There is no such thing as "arabic anime", it's J-anime dubbed in Arabic :) But did you learn much Arabic from it other than football terms :)? ***
Siomotteikiru said that you can't use the L-R method (or learn a language) if you don't enjoy the work. *** Anyone tried L-R to study a language from scratch (or in the early stages)? Tell us your expierences. If it does work, I'll stop learning Japanese and will try to improve my terrible English using it! | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 2464 days ago 276 posts - 92 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 7 of 25 16 March 2009 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Correct. But my point was that during L-R you are not only enjoying the work you also have the intention to learn; whereas when watching movies you generally do not have the intention to learn the language, you simply watch them for enjoyment. But even if you did there would not be any where near enough dialogue to learn from.
Your English doesn't seem too bad to me. Edited by Jimmymac on 16 March 2009 at 1:25pm | ||||||||||||||||||
| Dark_Sunshine Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 2076 days ago 329 posts - 14 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Romanian | Message 8 of 25 16 March 2009 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I pick up the occasional word here and there from watching French films, but nowhere near as many as I learn from the miniature L-R style sessions that I've started doing recently. I'm obviously no expert on L-R, but I'd say the main 2 reasons (at least for me) are that 1)You do L-R with a book that you've recently read in your first language, so the story is very familiar, and 2)you also see the words written in the target language, so it's easier to pick them out.
And Hashimi, I'll second that your English is far from terrible :-) Edited by Dark_Sunshine on 16 March 2009 at 2:04pm |
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