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Spanish dialects | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Collaborative writing |  | |
| Gabriel-es_ES Newbie Spain blogabriel.blogspot. Joined 6866 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 1 of 9 04 August 2005 at 9:36am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello there.
This is my first message, so I think I must introduce myself. I am a 25 year old Spanish engineer, born in the city of Vigo, in Galicia, that enjoys internet resources like weblogs, forums and user communities because they let us share kwnowledge with each other, and I think that is what really makes real the idea of "information era" something real. The core of my post is that I've read on this page that (cite): ----------------------------------------------------- There are also many Spanish dialects. Within the current political context of Spain, they are called ‘languages’ and enjoy an important political status. * Castellano or Castilian is used to denote the regular Spanish, by opposition to the other languages spoken in Spain * Catalan is the official language of Catalunya, the Spanish state around Barcelona. This is a fun language close to Provencal and French. With Basque, it is the ‘dialect’ with the most political clout. * Galego, a language close to both Portuguese and Spanish, is spoken is Galicia, the Spanish state just north of Portugal. * Valenciano, very similar to Catalan, is spoken around Valencia. * Basque is not at all related to Spanish and is a very difficult language. It is spoken in the Basque country, capital Bilbao, on both sides of the French-Spanish border. * Other Spanish dialects include Aragonese, Asturian, Murcian, Leonese and Andalusian. ----------------------------------------------------- This is incorrect, and the mistake is to say "politic" where you may say "historic". When we say that a people speaks a dialect of a language, we mean that the dialect is an offspring of the language. Most of the dialects you recognize are not so, because they are not offsprings of Spanish. For example, Catalan and Gallego born from Latin the same as Spanish. Even, Gallego is a more pure offspring of Latin than Spanish, specially in ortography, and no matter how much it seems to Spanish. Basque (Vasco, Euskera) is even not an offspring of Latin! Vasco is one of the languages that is self-contained. Vasco could never be called dialect by anyone. It does not have any simmilarity with any other european language. It is 100% independent. Catalan and Gallego are offspring of a dead language, Latin, so instead of being called dialects, are called languages. The same as Spanish. What do I mean by separing polithics and history? Well, they are 2 steps of the same process. It's a matter of law process that the main law of spain, the Spanish Constitution, recognices each language as a language, and gives that legal presence in the scripts and education program of each Autonomic Comunity (Comunidad Autónoma, you call it "state", but they are not). Prior to polithic recognition there must be a historic research that demonstrates the independence of 2 "alive languages". In case of Galician (Gallego), which history is the one I've studied, as I've studied the Spanish one, there have been found some written texts about 100 years older than the first written Spanish text. I do not want to put Gallego "higher" than Spanish with this data, only want to justify the things I share/post. So, this is the main reason because there are in Spain severall languages, not severall Spanish dialects. Some of the other that you cite may not be called languages because they are proved to be an offspring of Spanish, or they may not have been proved as languages (in our case, Latin offsprings instead of Spanish offsprings). Greetings to everyone, and best regards. Edited by Gabriel-es_ES on 04 August 2005 at 10:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Raistlin Majere Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Spain uciprotour-cycling.c Joined 6966 days ago 455 posts - 424 votes  7 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Catalan*, FrenchA1, Italian, German Studies: Swedish | Message 2 of 9 04 August 2005 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Welcome to the forum, Gabriel_es. Could you please specify on which thread you read that?
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| Gabriel-es_ES Newbie Spain blogabriel.blogspot. Joined 6866 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 3 of 9 04 August 2005 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh, yes, of course. Please forgive me: I'm talking about the language profile itself.
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| Raistlin Majere Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Spain uciprotour-cycling.c Joined 6966 days ago 455 posts - 424 votes 7 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Catalan*, FrenchA1, Italian, German Studies: Swedish | Message 4 of 9 04 August 2005 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | ||
This is a grave error indeed and should be repaired. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7190 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 9 05 August 2005 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||
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Gentlemen, I do understand that the notion of 'dialect' as applied to the languages spoken in Spain is a sensitive one. This being a site for language learners, the point of view I have to adopt is that of language learners, not linguist or historian. I tried to use dialect with quotation marks and use the word languages. I could not just explain there are so many languages spoken in Spain (which I understand is true in a way) and not do the same for all the "dialects" of Italian spoken in Italy. I am quite willing to add a phrase to explain that the 'dialects' are seen as 'languages' by many in Spain however.
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| Raistlin Majere Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Spain uciprotour-cycling.c Joined 6966 days ago 455 posts - 424 votes 7 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Catalan*, FrenchA1, Italian, German Studies: Swedish | Message 6 of 9 05 August 2005 at 4:21am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't want this thread to end up being some kind of a political discussion, because it's against the forum's spirit, so this is the last reply I'll post in it.
Portuguese is far more similar to Spanish than Catalan, yet Portuguese is not considered a dialect of Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7190 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 9 05 August 2005 at 5:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Gentlemen, I have updated the Spanish profile to deal in more details and with more consideration for the justified pride of Spaniards for their regional languages. Please have a look at the updated Spanish profile and let me know if this is better.
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| Gabriel-es_ES Newbie Spain blogabriel.blogspot. Joined 6866 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes | Message 8 of 9 05 August 2005 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Greetings to everybody.
The same as Raistlin, I do not want to add a political flavour to this post, so also this will be my last post in this sense. There is not a matter of how we call things, it's a matter of what the things are, and so how they must be called if you want correctness for the language profile. I have argumented what I've posted. The right point you should write on the profile is that some regional languages are bad-called 'dialects' if you want to distinguish the common Spanish language (Spanish, what is not other tan Castellano, as well Spanish was born in Castilla), the regional languages and the Spanish dialects. By now, dialects are for example the Astur-Leonés and the Aragonés. Even it is unnacurate to call Andaluz a dialect, because the differences with the Castellano are olny a matter of accents and made-expressions. So, to be straightforward, the term regional languages is 100% accurate and so it is perfect, because, indeed, they are languages and, indeed, their scope is regional. It represents truly a Spanish cultural issue, and is politic-clean, so that is good for this page, I think. The phrase they are called languages and enjoy ... does not add real information, and instead of that, adds political flavour. Even though, thanks for paying me attention. Edited by Gabriel-es_ES on 05 August 2005 at 3:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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